Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
The best way and the swiftest way to cut taxes for all, is for all to pay taxes within the economy from which they derive their profit.
Tax is an absolute necessity, companies that refuse to pay will still take the expertise, the labour, the education and the health of their workforce and their customers for granted, as if all such appears by shear magic.
It is not the perceived high rate of taxation that drives down the tax-take. It is the ease with which tax can be avoided (for some) that drives the need for higher taxes from the rest.
No matter the tax rate the law requires management to maximise return to the share-holder/fly-boy investor. Without effecting this any gravity assisted run around with tax-rate disparity will be fruitless.
"Time and time and time again it has been demonstrated that lowering tax rates increases tax yield."
This is a nonsense that can be matched by an army of tax inspectors trawling a fine-toothed comb through every SME, for this would equally raise the tax take.
Not until there is a requirement for each and every company that operates within our economy (any economy), and is solvent by so doing, should pay a minimum of company tax. It is called a level playing field. The only field upon which any 'Free Market' worthy of the name can play.
" the complex operations required to avoid tax" seem to be little more that one part time bod and one office and one desk. Doing this 'saves' billions of pounds. Can any such arrangement cost more than a fraction of one percent of the tax avoided?
There will be no materialisation of the least " good citizenship in companies", when so much is made of UK Plc. and Global Economy.
It is time for each Nation State to prioritise 'Nation' and for there to be Wealth in Nations as well as of Nations.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
People also tend to forget that if ABCD Multinational Corporation, based in the Cayman Islands, opens a chain of, say, 100 coffee shops in the UK and employ, say 2500 people here to operate them, while they may pay no corporate taxes here they will still be generating a massive direct NI and income tax yield for HMRC in the UK . They will also be generating a lot of business with UK suppliers and adding significantly to UK economic activity generating further tax revenues and employment.
To suggest that these companies are not benefiting HMRC revenues or the economy just because they pay no Corporation tax is simply wrong.
I would also suggest, Peter - that the bosses of such companies have a duty to ensure that they are run efficiently and do not pay excessive tax. They would be negligent not to consider their tax domicile.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
Nearly right.
"just because they pay no Corporation tax is simply wrong"
should read "because they pay no Corporation tax, it is simply wrong"
No-one wants them to pay "excessive tax", just pay "tax due"
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
They are paying the tax due GaryC - only what is due having fulfilled their duty to minimise legally the levels of corporation tax they have to pay.
So would you sacrifice those jobs, the income tax revenue, the national insurance revenue and economic activity just to force international companies into the UK corporation tax regime?
Cutting off your nose to spite your face is one saying. Another would be throwing the baby out with the bath water
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Something that lives off something else is called a 'parasite' Barry.
Yes companies pay the tax demanded of them, that is not to say the demand cannot be altered. Quite a few people, while being more or less content with the staus-quo, still talk in terms of moral and immoral. Let the ABCD's of the world come here and trade and profit, but it is more than fair, absolutely essential, that they pay company taxes at about the same level as domestic firms.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i did wonder why david did not offer me a cup of tea yesterday, just assumed he was just being a miserable so and so. if i had known his parlous state i would have taken along a food parcel to help him and his family have a nourishing meal together. i must apologise for my insensitivity.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
The demand cannot be altered without altering the laws and international agreements which govern it. The UK tax code runs to over 11,000 pages of text and here is a brief synopsis of the tax treaties in force with other countries.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/in-force/index.htm
Where would you like to start, Tom? Isn't it easier just to cut corporation tax to 15%?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Theres quite a lot of interesting differing views
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
just noticed that this thread has passed 100 pages and 2000 posts, i blame reg.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
He can be blamed for a lot (according to some lol) but there are a large number of contributors on this thread
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2020
peter, you will upset charlie who is spearheading a drive to get big corporations to cough up, a bit surprising considering his real job.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
just shows goes against what some say is that theres to much politics and no one interested
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
If BarryW is right "They are paying the tax due"
Should he not let Charlie know?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 2031......so is Flashman and Ossie ....but they do only talk.........
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Peter, #2027
Start? Work is ongoing...
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/news/programme-2012-2013.htm
If things were as complex as you suggest how can corporate tax liabilities be sorted by a postprandial handshake?
It is often asserted that the most complex of problems is like unto the knot of Gordius*, as you know. He was, in addition, the father of Midas, a most ill-starred line.
"Where there is a will there is a way." I say.
*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GordiasIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
The interesting thing is
can osbourne recover from this??
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Tom the work referred to in that link will increase rather than reduce the complexity of international tax laws. Apply Occam's Razor.
And Howard, Charlie is well aware of the need to get tax rates down in order to get more corporations to choose the UK as their tax domicile and thereby increase revenues.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
We realy need to find a method where those getting millions a week pay a fair share
in comparison to those on benefits who many are hard pushed to afford
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Majority of MP`s believe they are underpaid.
MP`s believe they deserve a pay hike of 70 %.........do we ?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
The MP's have lost the credibility/faith of the electorate
and doing little to correct it
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS