Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
Thinking about business I hope Brexit will also mean a stop to so many European companies taking over our established ones thus sending the profits abroad, Veolia being an example.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Both sides are waiting to see who will blink first so nothing is actually happening two years on. The only outcome that will keep the EU member states and the UK open for business is for us to stay in the customs union and single market but all the indications from the Government are that they would take us out without any deal whatsoever.
Freedom of movement hardly gets mentioned as a major issue nowadays so the stumbling block would be our ability or not to negotiate trade deals from countries outside the EU.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
We've been fed cock and bull stories for far too long - "they need us as much as need need them" or "we can have our cake and eat it too." Had we been allowed to pursue for a Brexit over a 7 year or more disentanglement period we might just have come through with the minimum of scars. Instead we have been led by grubby opportunists more than happy to lie to the public and pander to the worst of unsupported prejudices. It's a PR war now. Listen to Hunt on the TV this morning. Facts have gone out of the argument entirely. Let's just shout the loudest and we'll be OK.
Sadly, it's the fate of this country and our children which is at stake. Europe is a market of 580m people. We have the buying power of 80m. Who would you trade with as your first priority? Stupidity and bigotry reigns. And that's before we get on to the local problems that Dovorians will have to endure being at the forefront of this lunacy.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
Post 1977: I don't know where Veolia's shareholders are located, but one trusts that the company has at least been paying its UK taxes. Which takes us to post 1976 - not sure how that would work: a company ceases to exist in the UK, so we levy a windfall tax as it expires?
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
With regard to trade the EU is a declining market with most of the western member states gone as far as they can go. The Eastern countries that joined a while back are the ones to watch with conglomerates investing there to take advantage of the cheap labour. It became clear about ten years ago that the BRIC countries were the ones to do business with but we were unable to take advantage of it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I wonder how serious this threat is because up until now Cruella has always bought off renegade MPs with vague promises.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-tory-mp-rebel-conservatives-theresa-may-50-a8410736.htmlButton- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
If you wish a recent comparison of the relationship options parliament/government is currently musing over with regards to commercial trade in goods, you could try this:
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8309/CBP-8309.pdf
It's not particularly bad, although it manages to both over- and under-estimate the problems facing the Max Fac option at the same time. Over-estimate because most controls (be they UK or EU) can take place away from the border and, indeed, frequently do so already - the Motis and Stop 24 operations being 2 cases in point. In fact with railfreight, there are no border controls that I am aware of. Under-estimate because it seems to fall into the on-going trap of equating A customs union with free circulation of goods - wrong, and once again Motis/Stop 24 are examples of controls involving customs declarations, collection of taxes and statistics, and checks on goods.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,681
I cannot believe that the Government and the Leave campaign didn't foresee the consequences, companies moving HQs out of the UK, companies threatening to move business away if a sensible deal isn't done, farmers struggling to find seasonal workers, the likelihood that it will take decades to unwind the laws around fisheries and farming, the need to meet EU regulations if you wan to do business with them, the shambles that is the Irish border question, the financial impact, getting told we out of the euro arrest warrant scheme etc. etc.
I suppose that's what happens when you enter negotiations without any real clue what you want or what the other side are prepared to give
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"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
Ross Miller wrote:
I suppose that's what happens when you enter negotiations without any real clue what you want or what the other side are prepared to give
I think the problem is that some of our influential politicians wanted out while some wanted in and have simply had a real problem reaching a practical compromise.
I have no reservations that one will be reached but the publicity seeking mavericks on both sides with their big mouths have definitely not helped.
The EU side with their we are perfect so will not give an inch attitude are simply blinkered and the main reason we
are leaving.
John Buckley likes this
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
I agree with your first two points Jan but feel your third doesn't tell the whole story. As I understand it, a transition/implementation period is on offer during which the UK will be a member of The customs union and Single Market, despite having left the EU to become a third country in their eyes. That will be an unprecedented situation, not only for trade between the UK and EU but also, one assumes, for their and our trade with RoW countries, in that UK goods/components will continue to count as EU-originating.
(Not my real name.)
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
Button, I was not only referring to the present negotiations but the dictatorial manner in which the EU have operated in the past. An easy example being how many members were given the chance to ask their countries populace whether they wanted an open boarder policy for every Tom, Dick and Harry to virtually invade their country. I am not talking about those with a skill or job offer as they would probably been able to go where needed even if they did have to have the correct documents to work.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
#1988 - Jan - The Schengen area has been around since 1985 and now encompasses 26 countries, not all of which are in the single market, and are as diverse as Iceland and Portugal. It is about visa free travel and free movement of labour. If you think it can be summarised as an "open boarder" (sic) policy allowing every "Tom, Dick and Harry to invade" then I'm dare I suggest you have been misinformed? Current populists movements in Italy , Hungary, Austria wherever are nothing to do with legal EU ties. What Germany, Italy and Greece have done is to react to a global migration issue.
It's so easy to blame the EU (and bang the drum for Brexit) when the real issues are global ones.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
In no way was I referring to free trade as I expect most realised. What I will say in reply to Ray is this, did we have any choice when, for example, so many ( other countries included) Romanian unskilled workers and gypsy like pickpockets suddenly arrived in this country.
My last comment on this as the weather is to nice to waste on picky debate.
John Buckley likes this
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
on the brink of collasping
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Ross Miller wrote:I cannot believe that the Government and the Leave campaign didn't foresee the consequences, companies moving HQs out of the UK, companies threatening to move business away if a sensible deal isn't done, farmers struggling to find seasonal workers, the likelihood that it will take decades to unwind the laws around fisheries and farming, the need to meet EU regulations if you wan to do business with them, the shambles that is the Irish border question, the financial impact, getting told we out of the euro arrest warrant scheme etc. etc.
I suppose that's what happens when you enter negotiations without any real clue what you want or what the other side are prepared to give
Out of change comes opportunity. If you think of the car industry cutting loose and leaving the UK you have to think what do they leave. Well, they leave the factories, equipment, skilled labour and an opportunity for the state to launch a new British brand. The same with any other multi-national that moves out of the UK. Wouldn't the 52% + those that are upset with the manner in which the EU have shafted the UK subjects/citizens prefer to buy British once again?
Regarding seasonal farm workers, how about a national COMMUNITY service? Wouldn't that be an option?
Your point about the fisheries and the Irish border are very valid, however, having witnessed the demise of the fishing fleet and knowing many in the local fishing industry, it is of no wonder that the fisherman are vehemently opposed to the EU and what they see as their destruction of our major trade advantage - we are a group of islands after all. The Irish border is a conundrum that I cannot be totally comfortable with - I have not heard a convincing solution from either government as yet.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,206
"an opportunity for the state to launch a new British brand."
Really a state designing, introducing a brand of car? You really need to stop stealing the communion wine your Right Rev!
Arte et Marte
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Reginald Barrington wrote:"an opportunity for the state to launch a new British brand."
Really a state designing, introducing a brand of car? You really need to stop stealing the communion wine your Right Rev!
The British Trabant...what's not to like?! Seriously though, if they leave we get the skilled labour, the premises the trade opportunities on the cheap. Most businesses would be licking their lips at such an open goal.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,206
You're right i agree, but it does depend on someone with the money and willingness to do that.
I think the opportunities coming from our imminent departure will encourage more entrepreneurial individuals to take on the mantle.
I would sooner see the British Beetle though! (the beebee)
Arte et Marte