ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Radio 5 have been playing back a comment this morning made in 2016 after the referendum result was known, by one Ben Glaze who is apparently the Mirror's assistant political chap. When asked what he thought the outcome would be, he replied something to the effect of "I can see this all going on for at least 2 years and ending in chaos and tears".
Alarmingly prescient for a journalist and no doubt dubbed as project fear at the time.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
And a little missive I received which might disabuse those open-minded enough to read of one or two of the illusions currently being circulated at this critical time, "catchfart" Elphicke included.
In the past week we’ve had a couple who were just on their way to Austria on holiday who said no deal will be fine as we have rabbits in the fields and can grow potatoes in our gardens.
An ‘expat’ in a pub in Benidorm said the EU needs us more than we need them because without him the pub would close down so no deal will be fine. He is literally an immigrant living in another EU country and he wants to leave the EU because he has concerns about immigration.
A man on the radio said that no deal will be fine because people didn’t starve during the blitz.
Another man said if lots of people lose their jobs after Brexit we’ll be ok because we’ll be able to go to Germany like we did in the 80’s. (Just imagine being this stupid)
Another one when asked why he wanted to leave on Sky news couldn’t think of one single example other than STRAIGHT BANANAS.
Can someone honestly explain to me how we've ended up in a situation where people have such hatred for the EU that eating rabbits that we’ve presumably shot and skinned ourselves is seen as a better option than staying in.
The EU costs you about 20p a day, even less if you’re on a lower income. I’ve already posted a nice handy calculator so you can see for yourself.
We elect MEP’s in elections every 5 years just like we have a GE every 5 years.
The heads are elected by the head of state of each member country.
It is not undemocratic and they are not unelected.
It has less civil servants for 500 million people than we have for 65 million people.
If you didn’t bother to vote in the last elections then that’s on you not the EU.
It helps us trade with our closest partners and we then negotiate trade deals with other countries as a collective which has far greater power than a single country.
61% of the trade we do is either with the EU or via trade deals that we have by being in the EU.
This gives us tariff free trade and makes the things we buy cheaper. Contrary to what Mogg and The Sun tell you leaving will not make your food even cheaper. The Sun had to delete that article for being so utterly incorrect. FAKE NEWS
But we already have some of the best quality and cheapest food in the world. Just how cheap do you want your food. You can buy a whole chicken for 3 quid ffs.
We then trade with anyone else under WTO rules. Being in the EU does not and has never stopped us trading with anyone.
The WTO is however a basic trade default. No other country in the whole entire world trades on WTO rules only. We’d either have to impose tariffs on everyone or tariffs on no-one. Either way will decimate manufacturing and farming in this country. Anyone advocating WTO has no idea whatsoever how trade works. Even the one economist who actually advocates Brexit admits that WTO only will destroy manufacturing. He’s on film saying those exact words.
We do not have to adopt the Euro by 2022 you silly muppets. That Lisbon treaty you all share is fake. Literally FAKE NEWS.
We also won the right to not have to bail out any eurozone countries. If they fail we don’t have to get involved.
EU immigrants are net contributors. They pay more into the system than they take out. Some pay less, some pay nothing in at all but the ones who do pay enough to cover all the others with money left over for everyone else. Not that you deserve it. Anyone without a job or the means to support themselves can be made to leave.
Europeans are you neighbours, your friends, your colleagues at work, your kids friends. Why do you want them to not come here? Based on this vote I would not be married to my husband today because his family would not be allowed in. Is Andrew not British because he has European grandparents?
My grandson is American. Do you all want to throw him out too?
Over their lifetime they will earn more and pay more into the system and be less likely to be out of a job then the average Brit.
They do not drive down wages and never have. That is another lie.
They are not taking places in our schools from your kids and making waiting lists longer in hospitals or the doctors. That’s the f.... Tories.
They do not force laws on us. Unless you think making drinks companies tell us what chemicals they’re putting in our drinks is a bad thing for example. Out of the thousands of laws passed there’s literally about 72 things that we disagreed with and most of those related to trading and making consumers more informed and products less damaging to the environment. Our government would rather hide things from consumers and trash the planet. Lower energy lightbulbs and lower wattage vacuum cleaners help the environment. That’s a good thing not bad. But do you really want all the car manufacturers to leave so you can have a more powerful vac? You cannot get to work in a vacuum cleaner. Cars will have tariffs of about 10% of we leave under WTO. When all the car manufacturers leave we’ll have no choice but to buy an imported one. That’s going to cost you a lot more than your 20p a day.
THERE IS NO LAW TELLING US HOW STRAIGHT OUR BANANAS HAVE TO BE.
If we want to trade with other countries, we always have to accept rules and regulations that regulate that trade. Sometimes we might not always agree but if we want to trade we might have to make compromises and accept those rules and regulations But Trump for example will force us to lower our food standards if we want a trade deal. Being on our own gives us less control than we have now. How is forcing us to accept his standards taking back control?
They did not give Ford a grant to move out of the UK. Or any other company for that matter. Again that list that gets shared is bollocks. Fake News.
The European Court of Human Rights is not part of the EU. We won’t leave that by leaving the EU and we ******* invented it to protect human rights after the war because who doesn’t want human rights. Take those away and you think the Tories won’t strip away all your other rights?
And whilst we’re on this topic we did not get stopped from deporting someone just because they had a cat.
Freedom of movement is reciprocal. That means we can also live work study and retire and marry someone in 30 European countries.
The only people who will lose this is US.
Europeans won’t. They have the rest of Europe
We’re taking away this opportunity from all of our children. You might want to stay here. Your kids might not. Why do you even want your kids to have this opportunity taken away?
As well as not actually being allowed here Andrew would not have the job he has today if it wasn’t for freedom of movement. It can give your kids far greater opportunities than not having it. We are living proof of this. This will become even more important on the future. If we want to be Global Britain having the chance to actually easily live and work in some of that globe would be nice.
We do not have open borders. Go abroad and try and get back in without crossing a hard border. You can’t.
We are not in Schengen. If you still don’t know what Schengen is get in the ******* bin.
Schengen is actually ace though. It’s like driving from Yorkshire to Lancashire except you’re in an awesome new country with different cultures, food, languages etc which isn’t Lancashire.
Asylum seekers do not come here because of freedom of movement.
Leaving the EU will not stop anyone from claiming asylum here and neither should it.
It is a totally different process. Leaving the EU will actually stop us from being able to send those coming from Calais back to France.
But we have a legal and moral obligation to accept asylum seekers. If you have a problem with this you’re an utter bastard. Leaving the EU doesn’t stop asylum seekers. Even the ones who aren’t genuine. They get deported.
We can have blue passports even if we stay in. The EU didn’t make us have burgundy ones.
We have a veto on an EU army. We could stop it from happening. If we don’t have a vote we can’t and it will still happen if they agree to it. But can someone explain why am EU army is bad. Pooling our resources lessens the burden on individual countries.
We’re also not going to lose our veto. That’s something else that’s in the FAKE Lisbon treaty. Again it’s FAKE.
Almost three years has passed and still the government have no clue because there was never a plan and people are still peddling or still believing the same lies.
This is insanity. It needs to be stopped.
Revoke article 50. Sit back relax and re-evaluate. Brexit has destroyed us and we haven’t even left yet.
Mays deal is dreadful. Both sides agree on that. No deal is dead thank god. But Mays deal leaves us in limbo for years. This is only the beginning if we leave with her deal.
We can SAVE 39 BILLION and no doubt another billion that she’s going to bribe the DUP with.
Imagine what we can do with that money instead?
And in the European elections actually go and vote rather than moaning.
Stop voting for UKIP and vote for people who will actually turn up.
Even Farage wants to stay. He doesn’t want to lose his seat.
Email your MP and do it today.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,844
Ukraine has taken note that we have a herd of ersatz comedians in high office (shepherded by the Ur-comedienne, of course) and are about to elect the real thing as head of state:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47763176
The joke's on us.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
My preferred option of a Customs Union seems to be gaining traction with many MPs which will doubtless bring howls of anguish among supporters of leaving with no deal. It is true that we would not be able to negotiate trade deals independently but is that really reason enough? Many businesses have been trading with third countries for decades by having the right product at the right price with an acceptable delivery time, others might follow suit if they have to.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
a change of government what ever turns up, any thing is better than the sweaty socks we got now.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
A change of government will only work if lots of MPs from both sides loose their seats in favour of those who will actually do what the public actually vote for rather than what the MPs and their leaders want.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
Post 3886: Whilst much of this may very well be true, it does fall into the traps of error and portraying opinion as fact on at least 2 occasions:
- there was never a plan (it, or rather they, was published)
- Mays deal is dreadful. Both sides agree on that. No deal is dead thank god. But Mays deal leaves us in limbo for years.
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Lists like that are never fully accurate of course as the writer has their own strong views and will not give ground. A massive omission is to note the elected MEPs but forget to mention that around 70% of laws passed are by unelected commissioners.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,681
I refer you to this
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-parliament/en/powers-and-procedures/legislative-powers that explains the EU legislative process in a little more detail & a lot more accuracy than Howhard's post
Under EU law the Commission CANNOT pass legislation
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
Here’s another view from across the water.
John Buckley, Jan Higgins and Ross Miller like this
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,225
Great stuff - maybe Dover Athletic could play in that swanky stadium in Calais that nobody uses and enter the French National league. Allez les blancs and all that.
Judith Roberts- Registered: 15 May 2012
- Posts: 635
I believe it is the 1st of April today.
Jan Higgins likes this
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,844
Judith Roberts wrote:I believe it is the 1st of April today.
Just heard that parliament will be going into recess for today instead of engaging in another round of indicative voting: there were fears that A&Es might be overcome tonight with patients complaining of split sides.
Judith Roberts likes this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,477
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Gary39- Registered: 7 Jul 2017
- Posts: 421
We did book Brexit in advance.. and look what happened lol
Jan Higgins and Button like this
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
From what I can understand from the latest news pundits it looks like the Remain lot are going to get their wish as we will leave in name only.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,225
What an absolute mess. We deserve to leave with no deal for being so utterly incompetent.
ray hutstone likes this