howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The Speaker has warned that the PM cannot bring the same motion to the Commons unless there are substantial changes which sounds fair to me.
Brian Dixon likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
New on the Times website.
The European Union is ready to take the decision to delay Brexit hours before Britain crashes out at midnight on March 29 amid “political chaos” in Westminster. Diplomatic notes written for European leaders before a summit on Thursday indicate that the EU is deeply pessimistic that Theresa May can win parliamentary support for her Brexit deal. The notes were written before the Commons Speaker John Bercow told MPs that the prime minister cannot put her withdrawal deal before parliament for a third time without substantial changes. The EU expects the prime minister to write a letter on Wednesday to Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council, asking for an extension to the Article 50 withdrawal procedure to avoid a no-deal Brexit in 11 days’ time.
She will seek a short, technical, extension, if there is a positive vote on Tuesday and a ‘long’ extension in the event of a negative vote, without excluding the possibility of an extremely difficult fourth meaningful vote next week after the summit,” said one diplomatic note. European diplomats and officials regard “a negative or unclear outcome as the most probable” and Michel Barnier, the EU’s lead negotiator, has warned of “huge political volatility” after the votes. In the event that Britain has not passed the withdrawal agreement by next week, the EU will use a special procedure, if European leaders agree on Thursday, for a long extension to Brexit “within hours of midnight” on 29 March.
In the case of a long extension of between one and two years, Britain will be required to hold elections to the European Parliament before July 1. The EU anticipates three looming issues for European governments to deal with if the withdrawal agreement cannot get a parliamentary majority. The first will be for the EU to push for a new political declaration on the future relationship by next week, committing Britain to a permanent customs union. The aim, according to comments made by Mr Barnier, will be to “help to convince Labour MPs in the event of a fourth meaningful vote”. In the event of a long delay to Brexit and a potential general election, the EU is concerned that Britain will attempt to tear-up and renegotiate the withdrawal agreement. “The withdrawal agreement requires no adjustment and applies in all situations,” said an EU note.
One diplomatic note warned that elections or a Conservative leadership context would “bring to government political forces or personalities that could scrap [the] agreement with the risk of a disorderly withdrawal, even if deferred over time”. Another concern is that Britain will use its continued EU membership to and voting power and veto to disrupt key decisions on spending, trade and other Brussels legislation. During talks last week, Martin Selmayr, the secretary general of the European Commission, said that Mrs May would have to give a “commitment in her written request not to participate in budget or other sensitive discussions”. France, Belgium, Ireland and Spain are the countries most ardently demanding a long extension. France has told other EU countries that without ratification of the withdrawal deal it would be better to have a no-deal Brexit on March 29 than a short extension for a few weeks with an extra cost to business.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Bercow certainly put the cat amonst the avery
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Times.
European Union ministers have expressed their frustration at parliamentary “games” in Westminster and derided Britain for being unable to take a decision on Brexit. EU foreign and European affairs ministers are meeting in Brussels today to prepare for Thursday’s summit of European leaders and an expected British request for a delay to Brexit. Nathalie Loiseau, the French European affairs minister who is responsible for Brexit in France and close to Emmanuel Macron, the French president, mocked Britain’s political chaos. One must have a sense of humour when dealing with Brexit at the moment. Not only me but our fellow citizens,” she said. “We wait for a gesture, a proposition, a strategy from London. We are waiting for a decision, what they want and what they propose to exit this impasse.” She has called her cat Brexit as he is “unsure whether he wants to go out or not” when the door is open. “He wakes me up miaowing like mad because he wants to be let out,” she is reported to have written on her private Facebook page. “As soon as I open the door, he stands in the middle, unsure whether he wants to go out or not. When I put him out, he gives me an evil look.”
Michael Roth, Germany’s Europe minister, said the EU was getting sick of “games” in the House of Commons and would demand clear reasons from Mrs May for a delay to Brexit. “The clock is ticking and time is running out. We’re really exhausted by these negotiations,” he said. “I expect clear and precise proposals from the British government why such an extension is necessary. It’s not just a game, it’s an extremely serious situation, not just for the people in the UK but also for the people in the EU. I don’t have any appetite for substance-less, very abstract discussions and negotiations on Brexit. Please deliver, dear friends in London, please deliver.”
The EU agreed two extension options and the conditions for a long delay to Brexit. If a third meaningful vote, expected next week at the latest, gets the withdrawal agreement through parliament, then the delay will be short, lasting until 30 June. If Mrs May is defeated, as the EU expects, then a long extension — of between nine months and two years — will be agreed.
The extension has to be a “fixed date in order to ensure legal certainty”. Elections will have to be held on 23 May at European Parliament. “In principle it is possible that there is more than one extension. Yet decisions to extend may not be repeated in a manner that would make the duration of the withdrawal indefinite,” said an internal EU paper seen by The Times. “No extension should be granted beyond July 1, unless the European Parliament elections are held at the mandatory date. If they are not held, the extension should terminate its effects before the European Parliament meets on July 2.”
EU will want assurances that Britain will not be a “spoiler” on European legislation by using its veto and voting power to disrupt decisions on Brussels budgets and trade negotiations. “The prolonged presence in the EU framework of a withdrawing state leaves the EU and its other members states in a legally unstable situation that should be balanced with the advantages that are expected from it,” said the paper. Any extension can be cut short if a “withdrawal agreement has entered into force” or “notification of the intention to withdraw has been revoked,” according to the EU paper. Speaking at a Bloomberg event in Berlin, the German chancellor Angela Merkel was asked about John Bercow’s intervention yesterday, when the Commons speaker said the government could not bring the meaningful vote back to parliament without substantial changes. “I admit that I wasn’t on top of the British parliament’s 17th-century procedural rules, so I acknowledged what took place yesterday. Now we’ll have to see what Theresa May tells us, what her demands are — and we will try to react to that. But this is not the case of an agreement that we negotiated alone, but that the British government approved.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Brexit the end is nigh.
and it looks it will not happen soon.it looks miss may has had a good kick in the kyber pass by all the rebels.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
As John Bright almost said, "we have the mother of all parliaments".
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
We are now entering the world of make believe with our PM saying that Parliament is a laughing stock which is rather like the CEO of a multi national describing his/her business as crap and best avoided. She then goes on to demand that MPs back her deal or they will never be forgiven despite the fact they couldn't vote on it now even if they wanted to.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,656
The way things are going we will end up paying a fortune to the EU lot regardless of whether we stay or go.
I am beginning to wonder if it was even worth voting in that referendum as the Remainers seem to be winning the war up in Westminster. Maybe this was Mrs May's plan from the very start.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,386
The brexit traffic lights have been going up on the A256 at Tilmanstone.
Along with the most ridiculous (and probably dangerous) road-narrowing traffic islands.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The EU have clearly reconciled themselves to no deal and all that goes with it. Member states have spent a lot of money on border posts and employing and training up customs officers, freight forwarders ancillary staff and even vets to deal with the aftermath. The alternative is to sack everyone in ten days time in the unlikely event of a breakthrough or any time from two months after up until two years.
They are then faced with a dilemna of a rash of Brexit MEPs from the UK under the PR system joining the mix of MEPs from right and left all over Europe who share a common purpose of undermining the EU.
Besides all that why would they consider an extension when our playground Parliament shows no sign of pulling together?
Jan Higgins likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
The commission appears to have wasted little time in advising her to go forth and multiply.
Brian Dixon likes this
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
beat me to it ray.
its a kick in the teeth for her and her cronies.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,656
I would prefer a deal but if not time to simply wave bye bye to the EU especially as they will loose out as much if not more than the UK.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Yesterday the PM told her cabinet she would ask for an extension but would not say for how long. The letter to Donald Tusk was not copied to MPs and the first they knew of it was when they saw it on social media - we have a Dictator not a Prime Minister. The EU could not be blamed if they pulled the plug now even accounting for the damage to the economies of the 27, certainty is what is called for now not more time expended arguing in the Commons.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Having now read all of Donald Tusk's speech the last bit suggests Catch 22, our MPs must pass the original deal next week at the third time of asking to get the extension. We know there must be substantial changes for a debate and vote to happen which would then mean it wouldn't be the original deal.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
What a let down that speech was, just repeating the same old stuff then refusing to answer questions.
Apparently a new opinion poll says that 90% people think our country has been humiliated over the negotiations, I just wonder where the other 10% have been hiding.