Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
correct jan she is trying to confuse every one. talk about running the clock down.
ps a vote is a vote what ever the question is.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
This piece by a life long Tory politician sums up the PM for me.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Businesses being criticised for not preparing which is no surprise with only a month to go, they don't know what to prepare for.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47379308Button likes this
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,502
FWIW
?s=19
Guest 3065 and Button like this
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,234
Interesting, Captain. You and I are clearly on opposite sides of the debate here, but I agree with you entirely. In pursuing their ideological obsession, the ERG members risk losing everything. I feel that even if the PM came back with something half decent from Brussels now, they would find something else to bellyache about.
As a little sub plot, it'll be fascinating to see which way Charlie votes in the no deal vote - as if he votes against an extension of A.50, in other words he actively wants to leave without a deal, he simply cannot moan if his constituency descends into chaos if it were to happen.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,907
#3565: simples.
#3566: wanna bet?
(Not my real name.)
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,907
And talking of simple, it's interesting to look back at 2016 - I'm sure Gladys Knight could write a song about it. Take, for example, post 77 which had many (or, at least, several) wise words to describe the future of Brexit. Perhaps the most apt prediction was: "Some time around 20019 we withdraw from EU".
(Sorry, couldn't resist!)
(Not my real name.)
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,502
30 days to Brexit.
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'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Charlie has nailed his colours to the mast of the ERG in the expectation that one of them will be the next leader and he will get a front bench job. Wasn't that long ago he was on Dave's modernising wing of the party and campaigning to remain in the EU.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,234
That's the latest plan, isn't it? The ERG will accept the PM's deal on the proviso that she walks away ahead of the negotiations for the next phase. I guess they assume that one of their number will subsequently get the top job and give the rest of them plum ministerial posts. Mark Francois for Foreign Secretary anyone?
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Telegraph.
Andrea Leadsom could barely conceal her anger. Turning to Remain ministers around the Cabinet table who had campaigned publicly for a Brexit delay, she said their behaviour was "appalling and disloyal". The Leader of the Commons appeared close to tears as she accused Amber Rudd, David Gauke and Greg Clark of breaching collective responsibility, damaging the reputation of Cabinet and the Conservative Party in doing so. It came after the Prime Minister was forced to bow to pressure over Article 50 after the trio of ministers threatened to resign over the issue along with as many as 15 other Remain ministers.
In a microcosm of the clashes in Cabinet that resulted, Ms Leadsom was seated next to Claire Perry, the Energy minister and a prominent Remain minister. That very morning Ms Perry had penned a joint article in which she had threatened to quit the Cabinet unless the Prime Minister committed to extending Article 50. Ms Perry wasted no time in hitting back at criticism over her article. She insisted that former Remainers had supported the Prime Minister throughout. According to one source, Ms Perry argued that she and her Remain colleagues had been the ones publicly defending the Prime Minister's deal on shows like Question Time, describing their appearances as some of the "worst nights of our lives".
The rifts erupted around the Cabinet table. Liz Truss, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, hit out at the "kamikaze" activities of Remainers in undermining the Prime Minister by attempting to rule out a no-deal Brexit. She said that their behaviour was not helpful to Brexit negotiations or the "credibility" of the nation as a whole. Another source said Mr Hammond appeared to take exception to Ms Leadsom's suggestion that Remain ministers had been "disloyal. The Prime Minister made clear to her Cabinet that she did not want to extend Article 50, and believed that doing so would only create more problems. She suggested that a delay would only serve to create a "bigger cliff edge" at a later date and increase the risk of a no deal Brexit. However in a bid to avert mass resignations by Remain ministers she committed to offering the Commons three votes. The first, a meaningful vote on her deal by March 12. The second, should her deal be rejected a vote on a no deal Brexit. The third, should the Commons reject no deal a vote on extending Article 50.
Gavin Williamson, the Defence Secretary, warned Britain risked losing control if it committed to extending Article 50 and that the delay could end up being significantly longer than expected. While the Prime Minister suggested that there would be a maximum three month delay until the end of June, Donald Tusk, the President of the European Commission, is said to be considering a two year extension.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,907
So run this 'take back control' business past me again...
Ross Miller likes this
(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Neil - much as I think the vast majority of the ERG's activity is motivated by self-aggrandisement, I really can't see them allowing May's deal to pass the commons unless the back stop is substantively changed, regardless of the political riches each may covet. I make an exception for Bojo, of course, who would vote for pretty much anything which he thought might further his career.
And poor old Charlie. Look back to 2011 - how different things were in the world of the Tories then. Charlie couldn't even bring himself to vote in favour of holding a referendum! And then he changed his mind but decided that the remain route was the correct one. Then he changed his mind again! And now, naturally, the prerogative of the great unwashed to change their minds is something he rejects.
Ant to cap it all, he's now got our fishy friend on his back. He's going to lose his support, not just a bit of his support or even half of it - he's going to lose ALL his support! Never mind losing the whip for inappropriate behaviour towards his staff, the poor chap must be really quaking in his boots now.
Neil Moors likes this
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,851
Thomas Elyot must have had the windblown Charlie in mind:
'Constancy is an honourable virtue, just as inconstancy is reproachful and odious. The man who is mutable for every occasion must necessarily often regret it, and in much regretting is not only much folly, but also great damage, which every wise man will avoid if he can.'
As he won't want to experience any more of the Captain's verbals he'll surely now drop anchor in the bay of May.
Ross Miller and ray hutstone like this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Right on cue, Johnson said something similar a couple of weeks back. This show of loyalty to the PM will look good to the activists when they come to choose a new leader.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/jacob-rees-mogg-softens-position-on-theresa-mays-brexit-deal/ar-BBU87eL?ocid=spartanntpBrian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
tories in ternmoil would be an under statement. the erg are disruptive influence amongst the party, mostly self centerd its there way or not at all.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,234
The ERG, The Independent Group, Cabinet factions, Labour at war - the problem is that the political parties STILL struggle to come to terms with the fact that Brexit is not a party political issue and never will be. That's is why the PM struggles quite as much as she does.
Captain Haddock, Jan Higgins and Ross Miller like this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Gets ever more complicated but despite the votes this evening I still doubt that another Referendum will happen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47392018Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,502
29 days to Brexit!
Guest 3065 likes this
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the self destruct button has been pushed, goodbye cruel world.