Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,225
Jan, you are half right. All EU "diktats" are negotiated and agreed by all EU Member States, of which we are currently one. So, the UK, as a whole, does have a say in each and every law emanating from Brussels - through its elected Government.
Where you are right is that because the UK's approach to the EU has always been one of mild acceptance rather than enthusiastic engagement, we tend not to bother and thus, the population generally is sidelined and knows nothing about it. This, of course, is because ministers rarely engage in anything EU related because they don't see any votes in it. Then, when something is not to their liking, they tend to bellyache as if they haven't been consulted, when actually, they have.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Looks like another pointless summit took place with both sides not giving ground and only a few weeks to reach agreement in order to formalise a deal in November. Who will blink first?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45586010Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the uk government will back out, or should I say chicken out.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Iain Martin writing in the Times.
If you were running a major international organisation — let’s for the sake of argument call it the EU — facing an extremely difficult set of elections next May, with populists on the rise on the back of voter anger about elite arrogance, would you make your latest summit modest and dial down on the razzamatazz? Or would you put the assembled leaders on the set of The Sound of Music and treat them on the way in like film stars? The answer is obvious. With its usual tin ear for the menacing mood music, the EU under the Austrian rotating presidency opted for expensive glitz in Salzburg this week, despite its leaders meeting amid an epic mess on migration, with eastern European states in open rebellion, and the second largest financial contributor to the club (Britain) sitting there forlorn like Rodgers and Hammerstein’s lonely goatherd.
Of course, Theresa May’s position has become even more isolated and lonely, with the EU 27 in the form of Donald Tusk, EU president, saying today that the prime minister’s proposed Brexit deal — the Chequers compromise keeping the UK aligned with EU rules on goods h Brussels. They oppose the EU’s proposal to expand its own border force. They don’t trust it to do the job properly. When the European parliament moved this month to censure Viktor Orban, the Hungarian leader, over concerns about the eroAt root, the EU’s problem is clear. It is an overly ambitious and insecure organisation, that feels the need to present itself rhetorically in quasi-imperial terms, as the dignified embodiment of European unity and values. In reality it is really a recently patched-together trading bloc with no ability to defend itself and hardly any combined capacity on intelligence and security. Debilitatingly, it is now split in two geographically.
That deep split is not just a technical dispute over specific migration rules; it is cultural and existential. The Visegrad view, contested by European liberals who equate it with nascent fascism, is that what is at stake is the survival of European civilisation in the next few decades, with global migration flows projected to accelerate dramatically.sion of the rule of law in Hungary, the four fought back. The Hungarian government this week launched a campaign calling on Hungarians to “defend Hungary!” and castigating the Green Dutch MEP Judith Sargentini, who had led the criticism of Orban.
But with Britain in its typically shambolic, improvised fashion preparing to say to the EU “so long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, adieu” it is easy to overlook just what a mess the EU and our supposedly glorious European home is in. Ahead of those European elections at the end of May next year, the fear among mainstream politicians is of another populist surge potentially altering the shape of the European parliament and poisoning, from the EU perspective, the atmosphere in Brussels.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Another well researched piece from Faisal detailing how other Member States have been preparing for no deal and we haven't.
https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-sticks-by-chequers-plan-for-brexit-despite-eu-warning-it-will-not-work-11503460Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
we will find out soon H.another referendum looming.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,225
So, the plan I thought might just work has failed. The way I see it we have two choices now: leave without a deal, or, have a second referendum.
I am starting to wonder if crashing out without a deal is what needs to happen. If we do and it leads to total economic failure, then perhaps it is a lesson that we as a country need to learn and history will help ensure it doesn't happen again. Equally, if everything turns out wonderfully well, then let history show that too. I've said from the start that you cannot fudge Brexit - it will either work, or it won't, so no hiding places for anyone.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
We can't have a referendum until a deal is agreed and there is no likelihood of one in the near future.
The PM has made it clear that her plan is the only one and the EU are not having it so any referendum would simply ask whether we leave or stay. A lot of time would have to be set aside for both sides to put their case should Parliament agree to one so the leaving date would have to be put back.
Will be interesting if Jezza gives in to conference demands for him to support a second vote over the next few days.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the powers to be have started to talk about another referendum H, once theres enough backing in the house there will be one.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
What is there to be confused about? If we walk away then we will get none of the benefits of the single market. If we want those benefits (as we have done since the mightily enthusiastic Thatcher's era), then we will have to accept the principles which under line them. The DUP are a peripheral irrelevance propping up a hopeless minority government.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
If only things were that simple, will await the thoughts of Buttock on the Irish Sea border issue. The DUP are certainly not irrelevant (at this stage) as Ruth Davidson won seats in Scotland the last time around for the Tories purely due to her personality and can't be expected to do the same the next time. The PM is a great survivor although it pains me to give her credit and we have to keep our fingers crossed that she knows a way forward that doesn't leave us in the brown stuff.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
hate to burst your balloon H, shes lost and hasn't a scooby doo what to now.
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
The benefits of the single market are overstated.
Trade happens despite government policies and actions, not because of them.
The best way out is to remain in the EEA which leaves us in the single market but out of the customs union.
John Buckley likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I thought the single market and customs union were inseparable but if there was a choice the UK would be better off in the customs union.
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
In the customs union we can’t do trade deals of our own and still have to apply EU duties on things we import from elsewhere. Additionally all our domestic production has to conform to EU regulations.
In the EEA we still have tariff-free trade just not quite so frictionless because goods need to be customs-cleared. But Norway manages pretty well with clearance away from borders so we can too. And if we only want immigrants who work or own property we can invoke Article 112 of the EEA Treaty.
Jan Higgins likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
From Kent online
Geoffrey Cave-Wood wrote:
I have been involved in transport through Dover since 1965 and am amazed at the ignortance of so many people including ministers. For imports of course there would be no problem as we have the ability to wave everything through in the same way as today. EU goods without any clearance and those from outside the EU being cleared at the Western Docks or the facility on the M20 by the tunnel.
BUT our exports are a different matter and as the Peers pointed out the other EU countries will insist on customs clearance which means creating customs documents in Dover or Calais/Dunkirk. That means each truckhaving a set of invoices for that specific load. For many trucks today that is not possible. Often contracts are for a supply and there are no invoices produced, as payments are made through self billing for goods received. The values of individual loads are irrelevant to the contract.
Result CHAOS!!!
ray hutstone and Brian Dixon like this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352