ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
You really have no grasp of the situation at all, do you?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Some fair points John, I don't know about his radio and TV appearances but see his opinions on his website and Facebook which are simply intended to appeal to those who want to leave the EU asap and are not really interested in what happens after. I don't know whether he has changed his mind on the £39 billion recently but he was advocating not paying any of it which would leave the UK as an international pariah as most of that sum was made up of things we had signed up to.
I agree that he is being black balled by the Tories which is unwise in my opinion as all, regardless of political affiliation, should be putting their heads together to come up with the best ideas and then look for a sensible deal with the EU.
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John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
ray hutstone wrote:You really have no grasp of the situation at all, do you?
That’s probably correct Ray, along with everybody else, no doubt, that has an opinion not in line with your own superior knowledge.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
I don't claim any superior knowledge, John. I just try to deal in facts. It's a pity that you can't do the same but I don't really care. It's not my head that is in the sand.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
We keep hearing from our Commons representatives on the subject of why we voted to leave the EU.
There seems to be different reasons from different people however, Neil suggested that it was because we don't like Johnny Foreigner which may apply to a few people but not over 17 million.
My main reason was that unelected people had incredible powers and they would use that for the benefit of big corporations and detriment of ordinary people. Who's next?
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
For me it’s independence, sovereignty and all it entails.
But there are numerous other reasons equally important that would take half a day to list!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Like John I have a list but the late Tony Benn convinced me years ago of the dangers coming. The only thing that Blue Barry and myself agreed over on this forum was the EU issue, he saw it as a socialist plot and I saw it as an almost fascist movement.
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Yep, not many politicians I respect but Tony Benn was certainly one of them.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,488
Enoch, as ever, was right.
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'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
howard mcsweeney1 wrote: The only thing that Blue Barry and myself agreed over on this forum was the EU issue, he saw it as a socialist plot and I saw it as an almost fascist movement.
I see it as more of a dictatorship with those in charge telling everyone else what will happen whether they like it or not.
As for socialist (communist) versus fascist both can be so extreme they almost meet in the middle, both are you will do as I say governments.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
My second reason was the high amounts that the larger economies pay into the budget without seeing any benefit to the poorer member states. The ones in the South have experienced 40 - 50 % unemployment amongst the young with no real signs of improvement. People of working age in the newer member states head west looking for work leaving many towns and villages in Romania and Bulgaria empty except for the elderly and school age children.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
It's staggering how Benn and Powell can be locked together as evidence of the flakiest of arguments. They would have torn each others throats out as politicians. Yet now they are both right.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I have always seen Enoch Powell as a pseudo intellectual who rambled on without most people knowing what he was talking about then throwing in stuff like "rivers of blood" and "grinning piccaninnies " just to keep his target audience from dozing off, whilst Tony Benn always gave a clear opinion in words people could understand.
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ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
He's an earlier incarnation of Boris, Howard. The use of the term "piccannies" says it all. Politics throws up these people from time to time. It's just a matter of ignoring them. Humanity isn't their strong point.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,847
The fact that Powell and Benn appear to agree on something shows that what they appear to agree on isn't really the same thing. My guess is that, though they both favoured an exit from 'Europe', only Powell would have been a Brexiteer. The EU (including the UK, of course) showed with Greece that they will impose neoliberal economics, austerity and public sector cuts on struggling member states in return for their largesse. Benn wouldn't have wanted anything to do with that. He was a socialist after all. His view was that while there was zero chance of democratic socialist change in the EU, there was a good chance in a sovereign UK.
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'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
Howard, if Enoch was a ‘pseudo intellectual’ then there’s no hope for any of us.
Quote from Wikipedia: Before entering politics, Powell was a classical scholar, becoming a full professor of ancient Greek at the age of 25 in Australia. During World War II, he served in both staff and intelligence positions, reaching the rank of brigadier in his early thirties. He also wrote poetry; his first works being published in 1937,[1] as well as many books on classical and political subjects.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,488
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:then throwing in stuff like "rivers of blood"
All rather prescient when you look at the profile of both stabbers and stabees in that third world city which is masquerading as our capital.
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'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Powell was an intelligent man, for sure. So is BoJo. He came out of Europe fluent in French unlike Farage who never bothered to utter a word in a foreign language in the rare times he made the effort to turn up. Emotional intelligence is a different thing, however.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,847
Most people who invoke Powell couldn't tell their Virgil from their Thucydides. He's only ever cited now for the bilious racism of a single speech, which tells you everything you need to know about his current status in our culture and more than you need to know about those who invoke him.
ray hutstone likes this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Weird Granny Slater wrote:Most people who invoke Powell couldn't tell their Virgil from their Thucydides. He's only ever cited now for the bilious racism of a single speech, which tells you everything you need to know about his current status in our culture and more than you need to know about those who invoke him.
“He's only ever cited now for the bilious racism of a single speech”
Yep, probably true and I wonder why? Could be I suppose to support the usual PC doctrine that old whitey back in the day really was incorrect, nasty and wacest so we should all feel incredibly guilty and make amends? Just saying!