howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Let's have a recap of groups that want us to leave the EU with no deal. Leave means leave, European research group, UKIP, For Britain party, Britain first when they have served their sentences and Henry's new party when he gets the name right.
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,086
Making songs for Nigel:
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
nothing more to say.
ray hutstone likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Second anniversary of this thread and the first post now looks very prophetic.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Yet you'll still get idiots on here saying that if we jump off the cliff and just flap our arms we'll be OK.
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,259
Ray if it would shut a remoaner up for 5 minutes I'm sure they'll be queuing at the gate!
John Buckley likes this
Arte et Marte
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I try to avoid using tabloid clichés like brexiteers and remoaners as Jim Hacker once opined "you can talk in clichés until the cows come home".
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Of course it's all going so swimmingly well, isn't it? Events, dear boy, events.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Times.
Europeans will be granted the right to stay in the UK if there is a no-deal Brexit under a unilateral act by the government. Theresa May will take the “moral high ground” and allow EU migrants to continue to access the NHS and claim benefits because the rest of her government’s contingency plans for an acrimonious departure from the bloc rely “on the availability of existing labour”. The offer would apply regardless of whether British migrants in European countries are granted the same rights by the EU, according to The Telegraph. It will be contained in the first tranche of more than 80 papers detailing contingency plans for a no-deal Brexit in different sectors, which the government will publish on Thursday.
The idea was welcomed by Jacob Rees-Mogg, the pro-Brexit MP, who said: “I have always thought we should make a unilateral offer in this area. EU migrants came here legally and the UK is not the sort of country that applies retrospective legislation. They should have broadly the same rights as British citizens — no better or worse.” However, David Jones, a former Brexit minister, said: “It’s got to be reciprocal. We have a large number of Britons in the EU and their interests have got to be reflected. We have got to look after our own people.” News of the offer came as one of Mrs May’s key lieutenants warned that a second Brexit vote would damage her negotiating hand in Brussels.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
It's going to be an interesting Autumn, I suspect.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Hugo Rifkind writing in the Times.
Nigel Farage is back! Don’t take it from me, take it from him. Pretty soon, he may be coming to your town on some manner of battle bus. “I’m back!” he declared on Saturday. “From where?” you might be thinking, in which case shame on you for not paying attention. Did you not realise that the former Ukip frontman had left politics after the Brexit referendum? Were you fooled, perhaps, by the way he has continued to earn £89,000 a year as a member of the European Parliament? You idiots, that’s barely a job at all. Indeed, given his attendance record (748th out of 751 MEPs) he might not even know he’s still got it. Instead, he has spent the last two years turning himself into a formidable broadcaster, soaring to the dizzy heights of a phone-in gig on a local London radio show.
There are various reasons for this, and they probably include the implosion of Ukip and Farage’s desire to make some money. More important, though, has been Brexit’s advancing complexity. Shouting “no, no, let me finish, it’s the will of the people!” is all very well when the debate is broad but notably unsatisfactory once you’re deep into non-tariff barriers and reciprocal border agreements. In that old episode of The Simpsons when Homer runs for Mayor of Springfield, he does so under the slogan “Can’t Somebody Else Do It?” and this is very much the sort of Brexit in which Farage has always believed. And so, after decades of campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, when the question became, “OK, but how?” he basically left the national stage with an almighty shrug of, “dunno, not my area”.
Now he feels that we are back in his area. “I’ve had enough of their lies, deceit and treachery,” he wrote in a newspaper column. “The time has come to teach them a lesson — one that they will never forget.” Does he, perhaps, mean a lesson about the technical details of a paperless customs arrangement at the Irish border? Alas, no. Farage is angry about Theresa May’s Chequers plan, which promises a degree of regulatory alignment with the EU after Brexit. People, he says, “are being lied to while their wishes are blatantly ignored”. But does Farage have a better plan? About how the wishes of the people could be better fulfilled? No, of course not. Not his area. Somebody else can do it. His real lesson, and his only lesson, is that this will be a constant. For the armchair generals of Brexit, any deal struck in the ministerial trenches will be “betrayal”, just as any warning of the consequences of not striking one, however rigorously sourced, will be “Project Fear”.
A few days earlier, the British Medical Association had warned of dire consequences for the NHS if Britain left without a deal, involving both staffing of surgeries and hospitals, and the logistical challenges of leaving bodies such as the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control. Farage says they are wrong. Not how they are wrong, or why they are wrong, just that they are. “This baseless claim,” he writes, “proves Project Fear is thriving.” Yet a recent poll suggested that 60 per cent of doctors from elsewhere in the EU are thinking of leaving Britain. You might recall that the Conservative MP Anna Soubry once had to apologise for saying the then Ukip leader looked “like someone put their finger up his bottom”. We can only marvel at his blithe confidence that, should the need arise, there will always be somebody available who will. Other such troublesome facts will soon be upon us, not in single spies but in battalions. Unspoken, the real subtext to Farage’s decision to return to the fray is the likelihood of the government this week beginning to publish contingency plans for what should happen in the event of a no-deal Brexit. If they make the prospect look scary, and they will, then expect them to be sneered away in a similar fashion.
Take Brexit seriously and Farage has no role. This makes it all the more striking who his new bedfellows are. “Starting today,” he wrote, “I have pledged to give Leave Means Leave my full support”. Possibly you have failed to keep track of precisely which Brexit faction is which, because life is short, but this is not typical Farage terrain. Leave Means Leave was co-founded by the entrepreneur Richard Tice, who first set up the smirkingly nihilistic Leave.EU with the unlovable Arron Banks, but it’s supposed to be a more reputable endeavour. Numerous Tory MPs are listed as supporters of Leave Means Leave, and while they include the odd banal sloganeer (hello Andrea Jenkyns) the roll is dominated by those — such as John Redwood and Jacob Rees-Mogg — who fancy themselves as hard Brexit’s intellectual wing. Dominic Raab, now the Brexit secretary, was a founder member, too. Will these people still be supporting Leave Means Leave once it has Nigel Farage on a battle bus? Once he is teaching the leader of their party a lesson she will not forget? It is their failure, not hers, that Farage is back in this debate. They have had two years to move the argument for a hard Brexit on from his tub-thumping simplicities about betrayal and elites and the will of the people. Two years to make their case about WTO this and Global Britain that, and to evolve something more than, “You lost, we won, get over it”. How come Farage still speaks their language? How come they haven’t left him far, far behind? Shame on them, if this is all they’ve got.
John Buckley
- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Well, at least arch Remainer Hugo has admitted in the past that he writes for a mainly pro immigrant and EU tabloid, so perhaps not everything he says is exaggerated, but nice all the same to see that the establishment are getting worried about Nigel’s return as they have every right to be!
Shame though that he didn’t care to compare or mention crooked Nigel’s expenses/earnings etc., with that of his old man, only in the interest of balance of course!
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,138
John Buckley and Reginald Barrington like this
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
The Sun again. Good Lord.
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Mmmmmmm.....interesting article, even if it was in the Sun. Must be true though because it quotes “top” doctors!
Don’t think that applies to any of our remainers on here though does it? Can’t think of anyone who actually gets angry and needs to calm down about the way things are going.......although hang on a minute!
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
As I said, events, dear boy, events. The real world is not that far away.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The main point in 2371 is that once the result was announced Nigel suddenly went quiet as did Boris because practicalities had to be addressed and neither wanted to be the one that put their head above the parapet.
During the campaign both sides treated us as children and failed to come up with valid arguments so most of us voted on instinct the same way we would have done if the vote had been 10 years earlier. Over the last two years all we have had from Nigel and chums is stuff like "Brexit means Brexit", "Leave means leave" with clichés like remoaner, will of the people, cast off the shackles, treachery of our Government etc etc.
The whole issue is very complicated and HMG don't seem to know the way forward so we look to the likes of Nigel and all we get is more slogans.
ray hutstone likes this
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Not quite sure what you expect Nigel to do in a practical sense Howard, and as for not wanting to put his head above the parapet that is just exactly what he has done all of his political career.
In respect of doing anything practical, he has previously offered to assist the government in any way he can but they have rebuffed that offer. They refuse to talk to him and no doubt hate him as much as the EU elite do. They have never asked or requested him to work with or advise any government Brexit group even though he obviously has a vast knowledge of the way the EU works etc.
Likewise, they made no attempt to contact him prior to or after his meetings with Trump even knowing that he had the president’s ear. They just can’t bring themselves to have him engaged in any way, shape or form. That’s not his fault is it?
Other than that, the government make policy that no doubt the civil service are supposed to make work, that’s their job isn’t it? Perhaps if some of them actually got off their bloated backsides and believed in what they were tasked to do then they might even possibly earn their honours, knighthoods and gold plated pensions!
Finally, with regards to your comment “Over the last two years all we have had from Nigel and chums is stuff like "Brexit means Brexit", "Leave means leave" with clichés like remoaner, will of the people, cast off the shackles, treachery of our Government etc etc.” I can only assume that you obviously missed all of his many tv appearances, radio shows, newspaper articles etc., etc. , whereupon he’s gone into great detail in answering and discussing all the relevant questions appertaining to Brexit.
What else is he supposed to do?