Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
Barry in actual fact Gordon Brown said "no more Tory boom and Bust" that has a slightly different meaning to how you portray it.
The Conservative Party fell from grace in 1997 it has not been in power since and with the number of u turns and their inability to narrow the division between the rich and poor they are facing a disaster at the next election.
My granddaughter is now old enough to vote, her interest in politics is minimal, she regards them as yesterdays men who are completely out of touch with modern reality, I think she is right.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Some holiday reading for Barry...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/21/real-iron-lady-review
...and something handy if the piano should have a wobble.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
There are a lot like your grandaughter dave1
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Dave1 wrote:Barry in actual fact Gordon Brown said "no more Tory boom and Bust" that has a slightly different meaning to how you portray it.
The Conservative Party fell from grace in 1997 it has not been in power since and with the number of u turns and their inability to narrow the division between the rich and poor they are facing a disaster at the next election.
My granddaughter is now old enough to vote, her interest in politics is minimal, she regards them as yesterdays men who are completely out of touch with modern reality, I think she is right.
Dave1 - that was Brown's weak defense as if a Labour boom and bust would be OK - well we have the bust and, tell me - is it OK?
The fact that you cannot deny is that Brown, who claims to be a Keynseyan, failed to follow the inconvenient part of Keynes prescription, the bit where he said to balance the current account during the growth part of the economic cycle. It was his reckless disregard of that which is one of the major reasons for the depth of the UK's domestic recessionary problems.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
But barryw we now have a chancellor that told us we are getting out of the mess
that in the 2 years is borrowing more and lost triple a status
and it aint looking good for years to come
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
interesting comment from dave1 whose grand daughter sees the blues out of touch. this is the main problem for the blues whose leadership as seen by most as "spoilt rich boys", so elevating boris to no.10 would not solve that problem. the young look for inspiration from and identify with those who claw their way up from the bottom.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
The young have no trust in politicians
less so for the tories
and hate the lib dems for selling out
both those parties will be destroyed by the young as out of touch toffs
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Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
Barry tell my granddaughter who has little hope of getting a job about Keynes, all she is interested in is a job and to earn a living wage. This is where we fail the younger generation, not just the Tories but all of them,.They argue between themselves as if nobody else matters, they act like a bunch of spoilt kids disagreeing on principle, rather than working for the good of ordinary people. They have created a country which puts wealth before people, cut this, cut that all aimed at the youngsters and ordinary people but mention a tax on the wealthy and you are suddenly regarded as ignorant or a communist.
We cannot ignore our youth, a lot of us have had our day and look at the mess we have created, our youth will be left to pick up the pieces.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
good point dav
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Oh really Dave1.... The simple fact that this is about people, it is about getting more jobs, it is about better incomes and lifestyles. That is the whole point....
What is totally absurd is to think that a government can spend, borrow and tax a way to prosperity.
It is the private sector, only the private sector that creates new wealth from prosperous businesses. That is where all the taxes come to pay for the public services.
If we are get get people back in jobs then we have to cut back the public sector to relieve the burden carried by the wealth creating private sector.
Those guilty of causing all the problems we have are politicians. It is their reckless spending that is central to our problems and before things can get better the deficit must be balanced and we need to get to a more sustainable level of public spending.
So yes - it is very much because of people and jobs it needs to be done.
Keith - #46 - but if we went the route you suggest there would be even more borrowing, we would have lost the triple A rating a lot earlier. The Darling plan would have reduced the deficit a lot slower leaving us in a much bigger mess. Our problems, in part now, are because Osborne has not cut current account spending quickly or deeply enough. You cannot have it both ways.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
The financial problems we have, are not different to the ones in most European countries, in the USA and several others which run a debt-based system.
So it is not all down to Labour, who were one among many governments who continued leading their country's finances into ruin. It's the whole debt-based system that is at fault.
Some other books, other than Keynes, come into the equation here, or articles on the Web, or videos on youtube, where the reality is explained.
The whole economic system of many a country is based on the debt system, from government bonds to speculation on the share market (see day-trading), from Quantitative Easing to a whole range of toxic paper investments.
Add a few Libor scandals and the odd banking crash, and perhaps the property bubble, and some more...including absurd bonuses of bankers and share-company directors in general.
Chancellor Osborne is just mucking about with Austerity while the sun shines and the rain falls in proportionate measure.
If this is what he does when the crops are abundant, what would he do if we had no rain, or only floods?
To activate Austerity and mass unemployment, such as 22% youth unemployment here, or 60% youth unemployment as in Greece and Spain, is sheer folly.
We are on our way out of a system: the end will come, I don't know how, but it will come to an end.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Alexander - I have said many times the fact that other countries did the same foolish things the UK did is not an excuse.
We had 13 years of a Labour government who inherited what Blair admitted was a 'golden legacy'. The economy was set firmly on the growth cycle, the deficit built up during the previous recession was on a steady downward path, Savings were at an all time high and we had the best funded pensions system in the world. The banks had sensible regulation and there was a firm control over public spending.
Over 13 years Labour blew all that through sheer spendthrift incompetence leaving us in a shocking position and the worse domestic recession we have had for 80 odd years.
'Books other than Keynes' - Alexander, I am talking about the economist who influenced the UK economic development from 1945 through to 1979 and again from around 1990. Not some 'bbok' though it would benefit you to read up a few books about economics. I am not a Keynseyan, I prefer the Austrian school of economics that influenced Germany's recovery from 1945 and the 1979-1990 period in the UK. Brown claims to be a fan of Keynes yet he ignored the inconvenient part of Keynes dictum leaving us in the mess we are in.
Because of the position Brown had left the country in 2010 there is no choice but to cut public spending, we were not in a position to do otherwise with a massive deficit at the start of the downturn. To carry on with no deficit reduction plan would have been suicidal and would have caused a Greek style meltdown. Public spending at this level is the problem.
The problem is it was not cut deeply or fast enough.
Even so, you might note that overall unemployment has gone down in the UK since the cuts started....
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
but barry we had 13 years of toryisam before that.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
And that's what gave Labour a sound footing Brian - their "Golden Legacy" as described above. Britain would have been better able to with-stand the global problems, if our domestic finances had been stronger.
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
And ossy has had 2 years to get it right
is far from dong so
even his own credibilty failing
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Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
" Because of the position Brown had left the country in 2010 there is no choice but to cut public spending," as long ago as that was it
Audere est facere.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Public spending hasn't been cut, thats the problem. Until it is we're heading the way of Greece and Cyprus
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
What a revolution david?
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Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Pardon?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Sorry
thoughts going into overdrive lol
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