Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
5 November 2010
15:4978624Jimmy, a lot of the problem with Dover is that too many people sit on the sidelines and throw stones at the few who are prepared to get up off their arses and do something. That deters other people from having a go, and it leads to a vicious circle of apathy, decline and a 'something must be done' (I.e. by someone else) culture. It has to stop, otherwise in 50 years, Dover will be in a worse situation than it is today.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
5 November 2010
15:5378627Argumets (critical and cross-questioning) carry the day, Peter. They reveal the substance of a proposal.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 November 2010
16:0078630Jmmy
I was purely agreeng that being on the council you think you can change the world until you come up against so many obstacles to stop you dong so.
Of course these days councls have such lttle power to do anything you wont notice a lot of change as parties change control from one to the other.
And I'm all for open debate, and as many people as possible standng in electons, believe me when it comes to elections people don't fall over themselves to be candidates
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 November 2010
16:1178631Nothing better than open debate, agreed there Keith.
I sympathise with what Jimmy said but few people outside of Councils appreciate just how little power a Council has to get things done. There are just so many bodies to deal with, all with their own agendas and so little money. The DTIZ for instance is entirely dependant upon getting investors to invest in a highly risky and expensive town centre site. The role of the council is to get the planning right (always one for debate and disagreement) and with whatever money they can access de-risk the site to make it more viable and less expensive to develop. Even then it will be entirely up to the market as to whether they actually come and get the job done, no Council control at all, as is actually right and proper.
This is not to excuse them just trying to put into perspective any vitriol directed at the Council and members.
I repeat - if people want to have some influence over these issues then they should come forward and stand for election. If you succeed you will be in the firing line with everyone else thinking they can do better and getting very frustrated with the system. It is not all bad though, you can often make a difference, usually in small things (small but they do matter) and sometimes, yes - you just might get a big win. Even then you will get pot-shots taken at you by know alls who think they can do better. Thats life.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 November 2010
16:1578634ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 November 2010
16:1778635councils have been slowly starved of cash over a number of years, it will get a lot worse now with the new government.
the amount of money left over after carrying out statutory obligations means that there will be none left for political party councillors to spend on their ideals.
i can see a future of independent people filling the council chambers all over the place.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 November 2010
16:1878636Dover not had many up to now
and the few that have surfaced rarely last long
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 November 2010
16:1978637Woops forgot to say I meant on the District council
sorry chris and co lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 November 2010
16:2578641not talking about independent groups keith, just individuals that are concerned about their community.
there is not a need for political parties to get involved anymore, people like the fuhrer, susan, gordon etc could stand without a party and still get elected.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
5 November 2010
17:0278656Sorry folks, I do not usually resort to such language, as you know, but Alexander, your post # 22 is pure bollocks. What carries the day is a vision plus a chequebook.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 November 2010
17:1678658Howard - candidates who stand for political parties do so because they are concerned about their community too.
There is a need for the parties at District and above (though I think not at Town level).
The 'label' is a convenient shorthand for the electorate to understand the candidates values.
I find it very odd the funny ideas people have about political parties and this idea that they are something apart. very strange.
5 November 2010
17:1978659There's an echo in here!!
Councils have so many responsibilities and so little real resources - the people who do the job deserve a medal!! That doesn't mean, of course, that they are beyond a little criticism from time to time, or that there are some being carried by the other more dynamic members and some others with their own agenda.
Vision plus a chequebook is good - but one without the other is a waste of time.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
5 November 2010
17:2178660This is rare but I agree with Barry,sit down and have a drink it can't last.But if I stand for a Political Party at District Council level it would be wrong to stand as an Independant at Town Council don't you think! The people have a right to know if a candidate has any political leaning.and standing at the District it would look a bit silly standing as anything else for Town Council
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 November 2010
17:3378661Actually I disagree John on that latter point.
You can be a Labour or Conservative member but still stand as an individual for Town. You just stand without official party endorsement or financial backing at the town level.
You then also do not form party groupings either. You just keep the party stuff to the District.
Lacking statutory duties and a comparitively small budget there is not really any need for Party involvement at Town or any such labels at election.
Simply because Labour are there as a block on DTC I would never vote for any Labour town councillor at Town level (any more than I would at any level)
There are, however, some Labour town councillors that even I might consider voting for IF there was no party involvement at the town council at all.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
5 November 2010
17:4578662Barry your name was down for todays meeting at 1200hrs at the DTC office but sorry to say no sigh of you .
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 November 2010
18:1078668Correct Vic - I had an important meeting crop up at the last minute that had to take priority that I could not avoid. I did ask Jez to go, hopefully he did and give my apologies.
5 November 2010
18:2978671Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
5 November 2010
18:3878674Sorry about that you missed a good meeting, I will not post on this one ,I hope some one will ,if not then I will next week at some point.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
5 November 2010
18:3878675Sorry about that you missed a good meeting, I will not post on this one ,I hope some one will ,if not then I will next week at some point.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
5 November 2010
18:4778681Peter, then I might suggest Mr. Blair, he's got a cheque book of some weight. He also had many visions. Nightmares! I daresay Charlie didn't manage to reap many tenners last week, what
