Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#1
Do you remember the days like I do, when as kids we were taught by our parents to respect the local bobby. He was to be feared and respected and if ,God forbid, he ever knocked at your parents door you shook with fear in case Mrs Higginbottom had reported you for playing football in 'her' street?
Well the law is no longer held in such high esteem and one of the reasons could be forces are sacking almost 160 officers on average each year after misconduct hearings held in private, according to figures released under the Freedom of Information Act.
Forces have dismissed 477 officers in private hearings over the course of three years, following offences ranging from perverting the course of justice to criminal activity and breaches of discipline.
Cases reportedly included a Kent officer telling a racist joke and getting a written warning, and a Hertfordshire officer demoted after derogatory remarks and obscene gestures to a colleague. Two officers of the Police Service of Northern Ireland were dismissed for being drunk while armed.
Simon Harwood, the officer who inadvertently killed Ian Tomlinson at the G20 protests is to face a disciplinary hearing.
In this instance the old saying that all publicity even bad publicity is good publicity just doesn't seem to be appropriate.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#2
The days when all publicity was good publicity are long gone now Marek. The wrong kind of publicity can finish a career whether it is in the police or in the realms of the celebrity..it can be the road to hell, and the sack.
Talking about racist jokes, or jokes of any kind that are near the mark, the days are gone for those too. Our own Jokes Page here on Doverforum has been in the wars several times, and once again recently it has caused us to experience a setback. It's days are numbered too and the chances are we will soon close it down.
I remember the days of the feared but respected bobby. In Ireland it was just the same although they werent called bobby's in our case. But it was definitely community policing at its best, unrestrained by too many rules and regulations. The different ethnic communities that make up our society see things very differently these days though. So many people from hugely differing backgrounds look at things with different perspectives and this has hamstrung the old ways. Any action particularly by the police can be hugely misinterpreted. One had only to listen to the discussion on Bin Laden on the BBC's Question Time the other night to see what I mean.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#3
There is no connection now between the police and the people. When neighbourhood policing was the normal model, everyone knew the local bobby and he knew everyone and knew the neighbourhood like the back of his hand. Now when you phone the police to report antisocial behaviour they ask, How do you spell Pencester? We have a couple of token beat bobbies in Dover town but they are seldom seen and have never knocked on the doors of local businesses to introduce themselves. We also have one to cover the area from Waldershare to Aylesham and I have once or twice seen her whizzing past in her car.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#4
When I was young the common saying was "if you want to know the time ask a policeman" because they had a watch. They were always in the area and unless you were a wrong-doer you liked to see them and chat to them.
This all changed when the local cop got into his car and patrolled the area that way, they became faceless to the people of the neighbourhood.
Now the only time a policeman is seen is when he goes to nick someone or deliver a summons. We no longer 'know' them, they are strangers to the majority and as such we are now suspicious of them.
Bring back the beat policeman and vandalism and petty crime will fall, trouble is these things are now of no interest to our highly trained big-crime only cop.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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#5
Its nothing to do with sacking officers, police Have an attitude problem long before they get on the streets they do not understand the law in this country many laws are still on the statute book which means they are not law at this time they also treat everyone as lairs or criminals. when my grandfather was a police SGT I could not go into town unless a bobby stopped me and said young Alan behave or your granddad will get to here also the bobbies then took time to know all the locals and called them by there first name.and as kids we were respectful to them and them to us,but now days there is no respect on both sides. to much paper time keeps bobbies of the streets, a good clip round the ear is what we got and when we got home we got another from are dads.
#6
Paperwork, while a bit of a problem, is used as an excuse for doing less face to face stuff, not only by the police but by other public services. The idea of local community policing is, in fact, an old fashioned concept grounded in real experiences and sums up The Big Society that Dave keeps on about. Police who knew local people, had insight into local culture and respected local habits - it works, we all know it works, but it doesn't happen.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
#7
A long time ago - when I was about 18/19, I worked in Canterbury. My boyfriend then was a policeman in Canterbury, and when he was on the late shift I used to sometimes walk the beat with him. Whilst we walked a lot of young people would come up and say Hi ****, they all knew his name. He'd stop and chat with them quite happily. Also there were older people who were just as friendly and he always had time for them too. Thats how the police were in those days.
I have to say that although I haven't had a lot of reason to use our police, when I have they have been helpful and kind. I've also got a lot of respect for our PCSOs, I think they do a good job in staying in contact with the people on the street and also compliment the police officers they work alongside of. Yes Keith - you know I've told you how I feel about you and your fellow PCSOs - you all do a sterling job.
I think our law enforcement officers do a hard and sometimes thankless job and speaking for myself I have a lot of respect for them.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#8
PCSOs have one hand tied behind their backs. They need real enforcement powers.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#9
From the beggining then, we wont ever see the old days, bobby on the beat, so no good keep harping on about it, and was it affective i dont know.
We have an alternative to this as has mentione being the PCSO' peter mentione the powers which i have highlighte on here on another thread.
what needs to be remembered is PCSO'S are not policemen/women and once they are given to many powers there whole reason for being in place could be lost.
Some police find it difficult to communicate an are happy to be the geezers that go from one to another arresting people
after public demand we see the introduction of n/hood policing (after a long spell of the police not listerning and believing the way forwar was to go about in cars all the time)
in n/.hood policing you have both p.c's and pcso's working close together, the pcso who o there job well will know the local business's/people etc and build up these relationships, and you will see this happening every day of the week.
)peter that if all pcso's went tommorow they would be replaced by a pc.
this could never be afforded, nor would it be a good way forward.
pcso's because they are bring communities together get information from out of control kids, drug dealers, and the list goes on,
this same information woul be unlikely to come forward to a regular pc.
So by increasing powers would mean pcso's being p;ai £10,000 less tha a pc to do the same job would you??
also they would lose a lot of respect of the local communities, and you would see n/hoods going downhill because this info would stop flowing.
the pcso role is wide and varie and for some just having a uniforme presence does the trick, although the move to short sleeves tee shirts i do wonder about.
so n/hood policing is a big step forward which i think even peter's tory party support, its getting more bodies out on the street.
you will be surprize how much info can be gathered just by walking along a roa by many differing types of people, from drug dealers, to an elderly lady out walking the dog.
long may it continue and improve it';s not far off the bobby on the beat model
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#10
basically that sums up the present role of the p.c.s.o. tlking and listening to people and gatering information for the police to work with.
if additionally they were allowed to levy on the spot fines for the three things that we all harp on about then they would command even more respect in the community.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#11
Keith we have run a business in Dover for six years and you are the only PCSO I have ever met face to face.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#12
I have never seen a PCSO in my street never mind talked to one, maybe they walk my road when I am at work or asleep.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#13
Very interesting posts.
Over here they boost the police number by having unpaid Honary Constables who dress like coppers,sound like coppers and have limited powers.
They are gleaned locally by each of the 12 parishes. They play a vital role in that they help to police the traffic,speeding control and parking etc. They work on foot and patrol the parish shops,pubs and streets. They are well known usually by their first names and generally have their ear to the ground. When I arrived 2 years ago I went to the local pub and the constable ,off duty at the time, made himself known to me. So he knew my name where I lived etc.
They dish out tickets and then you are called before the parish where you are either fined,let off,given a verbal warning or have your case sent before the courts. A system that works over here but may not work in the UK. One gets a rollocking and warning for being drunk,no car lights,speeding etc .But one thing is that all the locals know him and him you .He/she is approachable and replaces the vital role of beat bobby by 'noticing' things or chatting to parishioners of anything sinister or changes within the area etc.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#14
they sound like a cross between our p.c.s.o's and the specials.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#15
No need for Bergerac then!
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#16
Like many things in the world we get the police service we deserve and merit as a society and in many ways they are also a mirror of (albeit a narrower cross section) our society.
We have one , possibly two, generations of people; where many of them have come to the conclusion that the police and most other organs of the state are not to be trusted and absolutely are not to be respected (they have done little on an institutional scale to earn that respect after all). The sacking/removal from office of officers confirms for many their perceptions in this regard, for others shows that the force is cleaning itself up.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#17
Maxton, Elmsvale and Priory Ward have a real Policeman and a PCSO and I talk to them both fairly regularly.
Roger
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#18
That's because you are a councillor, Roger, so you are one of the boxes they have to tick.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#19
roger,you are lucky to have both on a reguler bases,here at aycliffe we have no dedicated copper and very rarely see our psco.
#20
Brian 12 May 7pm Aycliffe there is a meeting hope you will be there at the schoolthen you can meet your psco.