Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
..being said about the Euro and Greece in the European Parliament.
The only way to save something from the Greek economy is to default and devalue.... great stuff. He correctly points out that Greece's competitiveness is down 30% compared the Germany.... Lets hope some of these truth sink in to some thick skulls...
Here is a video clip of what he actually said. He is 100% right.
http://playpolitical.typepad.com/uk_conservative/2012/02/watch-martin-callanan-mep-a-default-and-devaluation-is-the-only-way-to-salvage-something-from-the-gr.htmlGuest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Well I must admit it is looking pretty hopeless for Greece. You see the rioting on the streets almost nightly, because the population feel they cannot take any more austerity. Without taking the population with you on any fiscal measures..well you can get nowhere. The Germans have lost patience with the Greek nation as a whole and there was no rush to take the extra scheduled meeting last night to secure the future loan. The EU big financial players are getting tired of it....and probably longing at this juncture for Greece to default.
Otherwise..The EU crises seems to have stabilised for the moment although some economies are contracting...we saw this situation with the financial engine room ( Germany) in todays figures. France up in growth, but the Germans are down, although the movements are small.
A word about the rioters in Greece.
I dont know if this anarchy is widespread amongst the population..it appears not, but throwing petrol bombs at Police is pretty grim. But these are the same types that riot everywhere. Any country. Anywhere. They will riot about anything and everything...whether they know anything at all about the financial crises is anybody's guess...but I suspect they are just the usual mob...out for the hell of it.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
It may be better for Greece to leave the Euro and return to the Greek drachma and devalue.
The trouble is that the greek population are blaming Germany for their financial ills and burning their flag; surely Greece's problem was mainly caused through their socialist fiscal policies - spending so much more than they could afford.
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Roger - you are quite right.
Excessive public spending is public enemy no 1. The Greeks have some justification for blaming Germany simply because while the Euro is held down as it is by the weaker countries Germany was coining it in. It is all coming to a very sticky end. There is no stabilisation PaulB, just a pause that will not last long.
Greece were irresponsible but so were many other European governments that hid behind the Euro and Germany. This is why the currency is doomed in its current guise.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the greek public are blaming everyone else for their financial woes. the german invasion of 1941 and us half inching the elgin marbles are amongst them.
when it all started it was foreign bankers and politicians, maybe they should look at how their own country has been run.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
true
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
a bit like here then.the con/dem goverment is blaming the last goverment,the last goverment are blaming the goverment before and every one else is blaming the banks.cofused i know i am so whos to blame really but dont give me lip service barry/kieth.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Brian - we are less than 2 years into a government dealing with a problem inherited with the previous government that was in power 13 years....
So come off it - it is obvious where the problem lays in the UK even if you prefer to ignore the truth of it . The specific measures of the last government that gave rise to this are covered in a post below my blog, in simple language.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barryw,please open your eyes and take off those rose colourd glasses.wake up and smell the coffee.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Pot, kettle, black.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Barry is 100% right Brian.
No one likes the medicine we are taking just now, but there is always a reason why medicine has to be taken - to cure an illness.
Our illness is caused through Labour's mis-management of the Government finances over a prolonged period.
If our finances had not have been so sick, we would not have had to endure this particular cure, as our structural deficit (expenditure over income) would not have been so bad.
The banking crisis and the global economy would have been easier to cope with.
Roger
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
your right roger /barryw no one likes this medicine
but as has been said this govt aint solving it, as we head towards the double rating
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Not everyone is taking the medicine, some are having a nice dollop of sugar on it to help them swallow it.
BarryW.
"Germany was coining it in" #4
Is that because they are giving out their contracts to their own companies and not like us throwing £billions overseas, including their companies?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
The chronology of the Global Finance crisis starts in 2000 but there were several hick ups before.
The banks and finance institutions went belly up due to their irregular and risky operations.
In the UK the public bailed them out with billions of pounds of our money.
The banks etc refused to lend some of our money back to stimulate economic growth.
The public is made to pay the lions share to reduce the deficit and the cuts are not fairly distributed.
The bankers and their like continue to receive their extortionate salaries and continue to give themselves
obscene/outrageous bonuses and continue to live high on the hog.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Reginald.... you really do not get it do you.... Why were the banks able to take risks, those risks being in the USA primarily? Who encouraged them to take those risks? Needless to say that not all banks were as stupid as HBOS and RBS.
I am no fan of the banks and there is a lot we can attack them over but as usual you miss the real problems with them.
The fact is you just ignore the truth because it is inconvenient with your political affiliations.
And now of course based on your usual base level tabloid understanding you peddle more of the usual bigotry.
I might tell you what is actually happening in the real business world but, of course, the real world is an inconvenient truth to you and it does not create more excitable and lurid tabloid headlines.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - Germany is coining it because the weaker Eurozone countries are holding down the value of the Euro to the benefit of the German economy while at the same time at the other end of the currency see-saw Germany and the stronger countries are keeping the Euro too high for the weaker economies driving them deeper into recession.
Putting it another way - we are seeing a transfer of wealth from the weak Eurozone countries to the stronger ones...
There we have the fundamental flaws of the Euro and why it cannot survive.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Barry
I agree that more controls are required as what we are seeing is the result of rampant, unfettered capitalism. When the 'weaker' countries joined the Euro the financial institutions leapt in and brought billions which were used to support domestic policies and for investment. Politicians, seduced by the glass and steel and intoxicated by the prestige, encouraged more. However, at the fist hint of economic trouble, the financial institution leapt out and took their money with them leaving the awful mess we see. What has happened to those who were most to blame? Nothing. What has happened to those least to blame? They are being told to work harder, work longer, cut, cut cut and expect less and less.
Who can blame them for taking to the streets? Generations are condemned to hardship whilst those who should be held accountable are waltzing off to their next project apparently immune to the consequences of their actions.
There is a saying that 'the operation was a success but the patient still died'; and we can see this being played out in Greece at the moment. Sadly, real people are having their lives devastated as politicians and financiers impose impossible demands on them to demonstrate their own 'potency' and to pass the buck.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Mark - the problems you refer to are more to do with big government not 'unfettered capitalism' as you put it. Governments went on a spending spree borrowing huge sums to fund it way above what was sensible.
OK you could argue that banks, insurance companies and pension funds were guilty of irresponsible lending practises in lending to governments but that is as far as it goes in that respect. Governments are supposed to be responsible after all.... The form of lending that institutions do to government is by the purchase of bonds (sovereign debt), the billions you refer to.
That is just part of the problem of course. The Eurozone countries cannot devalue and allow their currency to take some of the pressure. The fact is the Euro was and is flawed and we are seeing those flaws under pressure. It was truly a cobbled together currency and the rules of entry were smudged and indeed broken to get countries in and then the rules were further ignored by governments when in.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
whether big government or big business is to blame for the mess is a matter of little importance to the people who are bearing the brunt of the cuts.
rural bus service users, pensioners having their heating allowance cut, parents having to shell out a lot more in fares to get their children to school.
in some parts of the country libraries, leisure centres and swimming pools have been closed again not the fault of the people using them.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard - the facts are simple. Business cannot in any way be blamed because a government has been deficit spending to a huge degree. Who is responsible for what you spend way above your means? Only you, not the people who pay you your income. (generic you.... of course!!! nothing personal..)