howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the fact that i see as simple is that the people suffering have not done anything wrong, not had the benefits of the boom years but are getting a kicking now.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Let's see if there is still some honesty about.
I swing from the left, BarryW from the right, no problem about that, I agree and respect that situation.
We have a tory led government in power, so why are we surprised at the direction of these cuts?
Why are we surprised that they are taking this opportunity to enforce their beliefs, their ideals, their way of making this country a better place for their members to live and exist in.
My only wishes are that they stop telling lies by telling us we are all in this together and we will all be better off.
My second wish, being that we get a true Labour Government in next term, that will be as ruthless as this lot has been and look after its members with the same tenacity.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Gary: Labour will always just create more economic misery as we have learned from history, no Labour government has been an economic success, they all end in tears and a whole pile of trouble left to clear up. This is factual, look at the history. Spending other people's money until it runs out Gary is what Labour does best, that is opinion.
As for cuts - well they have to be applied to government spending because government spending is the problem. Naturally they have to be applied to the larger budgets and the massive expansion of the benefit culture means that has to take at least a proportional share.
What parts of government spending would you cut - bear in mind the sheer scale of cuts needed Gary.
My wish would be to get a true Tory government with a good majority to get on with the job of putting the economy right and dealing with the other messes left behind.
Howard - the the right people for them to blame would be those who created the need to make the cuts by excessive spending way above their means in a period in which they should have balanced the budget - that is the last government.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Typo..............penultimate paragraph............``masses``............
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
That's where we differ, BarryW.
Cuts to government spending is not the only solution.
The other solution is where I was hoping for honesty.
If everyone and I mean everyone, paid their taxes in full, so many drastic cuts to the elderly and disabled would, not could, factually be avoided.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - define 'paid their taxes in full' if there you are referring to all that is legally required and no more then I agree people should. They should also be sensible though and protect as much of their hard earned dosh by using the legal ways provided to minimise their tax liabilities. We should all place our families first.
However - you perhaps do not appreciate the sheer scale of the deficit. The problem is not tax collection, this is not Greece and better enforcement of the tax rules will only tickle the surface of the deficit.
The problem is over spending and there is only one way that can be tackled.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
You are quite right Gary. The sitting targets of taxation are hounded to within an inch of their lives and the fly-boys are admired and envied.
The tax system will only begin to be redressed when those on the public pay-roll are prevented from being paid in any other way than PAYE.
Tax is, first and foremost, a good thing and not a game of hide and don't seek.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
You know perfectly well what I mean and you have answered my honesty question, thanks.
"They should also be sensible though and protect as much of their hard earned dosh by using the legal ways provided to minimise their tax liabilities".
That sentance shows just how much out of touch you are with what is really going on.
The one thing you do not need to tell me, is to put my family first.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Tom. Tax is not a good thing; like Government it is a necessary evil.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
LOL Gary - so you really do think that hard working people should place the government's needs before those of their families and pay more tax than revenue actually require. That is not only out of touch with reality it is out of touch with all sense and reason. You are saying that because government ballsed up we should all forgo our ISA allowances, pension contribution CGT allowances, IHT allowances etc etc etc - all things provided for us to use by said government.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Well said Peter. Tax is good only up to a point, we are well past the point at which tax become detrimental to the economy with too much complexity and is too high.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Quite, Barry. If tax rates are set low enough to compete with other countries, avoidance and evasion are not worthwhile and the tax base increases massively.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
No, that is nothing like what I said or what I was refering to, as well you know but that does not matter to you does it?.
I think all hard working people should be rewarded, from top to bottom. Fair share is all I am saying.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - there are real problems to address in the real world in a practical way.
Bland statements such as you just came up with do no good at all. There is a serious problem.. and you did suggest what I said. Yes more tax revenue is needed but take note of what Peter said.
If we want more tax revenue then the right measures must be taken to increase that tax revenue and those measures are invariably ones that you would not approve. Higher tax rates for instance will always have a detrimental effect on revenue gained, in fact there is a compounding effect the longer higher tax rates are in place turning a bad situation into an ever declining one.. There is no room for socialistic sentiments in getting this right simply because the genuinely poor and deprived cannot afford that socialist nonsense.
Your attitude seems to be that government is the master and should be allowed to dip into our pockets as and when it sees fit to whatever extent it sees fit. I take the view that government is the servant and we, the people, have the right to protect what we have, within the laws laid down by our democratic parliament, from being stolen by that servant.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
are we talking paye tax returns here or across the board,re post 32.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
PAYE is just a collection method Brian. Peter is referring to taxes of all types.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Actually I was talking about taxes on income. Things like excise duty and VAT are impossible to avoid except by smuggling or abstinence.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
. . . or brewing your own!
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
peter,thanks for your answer.
barryw,please read my last post proply.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Express yourself properly Brian.
