Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Ross
I certainly would not walk from one end of town to the other to do my shopping and most people will not nowadays. That is why out of town shopping centres are booming and High Streets are in decline.
Dover's ribbon development is suited to 19th century shopping habits but for the 21st century a revolution is required.
Jan
I would happily see Pencester built on. It is a shadow of its former glory and an unpleasant experience as you run the gauntlet between foul mouthed yobs and drunks.
If the town is to have a shopping zone this would be an ideal location and I would turn the DTIZ into a green area that might attract people to stop and explore the town.
The last time I mentioned these ideas Barry W reported that a London based development firm had been commissioned to draw up a survival plan for the town and came up with pretty much the same suggestions so I am not just a lone voice.
So the foul mouthed yobs and drunks win? I think that is a bit arse about face, frankly.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
doubt if you would get much support for building on pencester gardens mark, better to police it better and make it more of pleasure to use.
regarding the green belt land on the d.t.i.z site paul b suggested this some time back but was told that it would cost a small fortune to buy the land in the first place and once demolition costs and landscaping were added on it was a non starter.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
agreed howard
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Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
I would build on Pencester because it is the sensible thing to do in order to create a shopping 'centre' to the town not because of the drunks and yobs. A 'Lanes' type development, as David H proposes, would work well there and provide accommodation for those businesses further out of town.
Dover needs radical action not tinkering and as long as its shopping centre runs for over 2 miles it will be susceptible to large, out of town development.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Mark
i dont agree with building on pencester, better to police the yobs as ben says
but even if pencester were built on this woul; probably kill the town shops and further up towards cherry tree
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
It may well provide accommodation but will it be at a price they can afford? The reason many of the shops up London road do not move closer into town is that they cannot afford the ludicrous rents charged in the "primary" shopping areas.
How would you deal with that?
How would you incentivise small retailers to move?
How would you encourage an eclectic mix of indies etc?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
I imagine the answers to your questions lie within the political realm and hopefully one of our councillors will tell us that there is provision of 'incubator' units and low start up rents for new businesses which many local authorities seem to be doing.
What is the alternative though, Ross? Apparently, Government figures show that between 2005 and 2010, town-centre sales grew by just 1.5%, while those in out of town shopping centres grew 11.5% and non-store (mail order and internet) increased by 71.5%.
If there is to be a realistic challenge then continuing in the same old way cannot be the answer. Shoppers are voting with their feet and Dover is dying on its feet.
Continuing the same old way is not the answer, but I haven't really heard anyone suggest that. Rather I have heard people suggesting new ways to employ and big up existing environments, which is the right way, isn't it?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
yes bern
but im sure you can understand the frustration
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Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Bern
the 'same old way' that I was referring to was the blight caused by ribbon development. New shops/businesses in the existing buildings simply continue that as pleasing as the thought of this investment might be.
Ribbon development hasn't served the town well over the past few decades and won't serve it well for the future. The need must be to concentrate into one area to compete with the out of town centres - or, as we so often hear ' to give the customer what they want'.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
I wonder if it is a generation thing, this everything must be together because I am not going to walk for five minutes to different shops.
Having said that I found my one and only visit to Bluewater very tiring having walked far further than I ever have her in Dover, it seemed like miles.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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I loathe Bluewater and Lakeside. Was dragged there by the family once. Once was enough. I would rather "trek" through a unique and interesting town than slob through a uniform and clammy "mall". Horrible!!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
bern,then you havent been to vale de europe just outside eurodisney.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i have never actually been to an out of town shopping centre unless you include the designer outlet at ashford.
i actually prefer dover town, at least you bump into people that you know, if i want something not available here then canterbury fills the vacuum.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
vic,have you thought of becoming a vicer,preacher or somthing simular.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
where does that fit into this.?
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
quite easaly vic,your allways preaching about this,that and everything else.ok sweetie.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Yes if you say so mate.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
oh dear that word mate again
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