howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Ah the Fabian Society..first came across it in my schooldays when studying that 'other' Irishman of note...George Bernard Shaw! I believe it calls itself a think tank these days but in those old days it was a left wing socialist society with the noted philosophy of a fair wage and fair deal for all classes. Although they would have put it rather more intellectually themselves Im sure. GBShaw was one of those intellectuals...it attracted some leading society figures in its day..those of a more radical bent of course. Any talk of socialism over well-to-do dinner those days was enough to give a person dyspepsia.
I suppose the most headline worthy thing Ed Balls said is that he would support the coalition's pay freeze in the public sector. I can see where he is coming from here. With money in short supply higher wages would inevitably mean less people working. If the budget is z amount then you can only squeeze a certain amount of people into z amount. Make the individual wage higher and you can squeeze less people into z amount.
Of course in true Labour fashion he blames George Osborne for the series of mistakes that has left us in our current plight. All cuts and no stimulus is basically what Ed Balls is saying re George.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ed b*lls seems to be making more noise than the other red ed, some of his recent statements have come across as giving the impression he is the leader.
I havnt managed to catch up with the source information, so I wonder if someone who has could answer a question. Is the plan to stop any negotiated pay increases or to stop the guarenteed incremental raises ? Theres a huge difference , one meaning no negotiated pay rises take place and the other meaning no progression up a guarenteed incremental spine . If its just the first then unless a person is at the top of the scale ( usually they will have been in post at least 7 years ) then a yearly pay rise will happen anyway . It will only be a pay freeze if both systems are frozen , Im not sure the incremental rise could be stopped as they are a contractual condition whereas a negotiated guarenteed annual payrise isnt
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
you will find im sure sarah both can be stopped in your contract im sure there will be a clause for these type of times
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think you may be right here keith, the cobbled together people will be thinking about the overall payout.
sorry sarah but you may have to suffer from frozen incrementals.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
sarah if you have what howrd sugests defrost slowly.
I had those once. Very bracing.......
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the two ed's have upset a large number of senior back benchers who accuse them of signing up to the government agenda.
the bookies now make red ed odds on to go before the next general election with mrs balls favourite to replace him.
Thanks Howard but I dont work for a public body any more
. It would take a renegotiation of the contract for the yearly incremental raises not to be honoured , there is no element of the contract that allows for the suspension of this part of the terms and conditions (NHS Im talking about I dont know the KCC or council contracts well enough to be certain ) .
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
The sad reality for those of us on the left is the last thing these two Ed's (always think of the talking horse when I type that) are is "red" in any political sense of the word.
Labour ceased to be a socialist party when Blair tore the soul out of the constitution, he tried to turn it into a Social Democratic Party and sort of got there, his successors have continued the Blair drift to the centre and if anything it is now a great example of a European Centrist/Moderate party. Whilst they are happy to take the unions money, particularly as individual membership and subs have dwindled, they no longer share the same agenda and in fact often do not share the same intellectual or political platform. If unions want to see the left genuinely back in the house they may well need to start their own party all over again.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Well summed up Ross , the union funding to the Labour Party is needed more than ever , It will be intresting to see what develops over the next few months
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
For those of you who seem intent on using colour descriptors for our leading politicos perhaps a more fitting and accurate one for Balls and Milliband woould be "TAUPE"
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
#11#12#13, great stuff. Absolutely agree. Just a pity the yellow has gone..........
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the yellow is still there, one sits next to dave in the commons.
a socialist party would just be a protest movement in the u.k. the country is conservative with a small c that tends to side with one of the main social democratic parties, karl marx saw that when he was around.
tony blair was the first red politician to see that to get any leftish policies implemented they would have to gain power by being in the centre ground. dave saw this and took the same road.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
But Howard being conservative in outlook and attitude does not mean you are a Conservative.
Many socialists are very conservative in their outlook, but still want a fairer more equitable society etc etc.
Socialist does not always equate with progressive or radical any more than Conservative or Liberal does
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
As for Blair - he was a Christian Democrat masquerading as a Social Democrat - he would have been far happier on the left of the Conservative Party
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
#16. People believe that "socialist" = "radical" because the media has convinced them. And what another fine mess that has gotten us into.......
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
radical is probably a better term for what the british public are nervous about.
that is why the far right and far left are marginalised, whilst in many other europen countries they do better.
the far right particularly at this time because of immigration issues but at another time the left.
i don't share the view about tony blair betraying the socialist cause, without him the minimum wage would never have been brought in and tax credits for hard working low paid people.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I think it has now been proven that two Eds are not necessarily better than one.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson