Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
"...need to spend money without a thought to where that money has to come from..."
Where does (the) money come from?
Where can it come from when more and more of it is concentrated in so few hands?
The value, the true value, of money is in it's moving around;in being 'earned' and spent.
The trouble, in these troubled times, is that the money is happy where it is and is not being spent unless and until there is a guarantee that it shall be returned 'seven-fold'.*
And money is happy where it is because the sums grow through 'magic'. As unearned income.
People who have the money are afraid to spend it, risk is not for them. For they know for certain that unscrupulous people, just like them, will shave lots of it off the top. 'Money' is in it's last place:the last place it wants to be, the last place it should be and the last place it needs to be. It is with it's lovers. Where it can be drooled-over.
*Pick your own figure, if you wish.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 41. Excellent summary.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#41-2, could have come straight out of the Communist Manifesto.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Still sounds extremely accurate.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Surely Peter such ejaculations as your #43 are the very antithesis of reasoned argument?
What about doing things one at a time...
Where does (the) money come from?
I trust that some of your education was spent on something other than committing the Communist Manifesto to memory?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
someone has to sort out the running dogs of capitalism tom, who better than peter?
#41 just means that, on the whole, the people with the most money are the ones with a love of money. The love of money is the root of evil. And it is clear that many people rolling in it are not especially moved to move it around much. I don't mean giving shedloads to the great unwashed, just investing in more philanthropic things. There are a few really outstanding examples, some of whom are not publicly known about, but overall, as Tom indicates, and without the need to read the manifesto, money stays in the pockets of the rich. Not the okay-rich, the super-rich.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
My house captain had a habit of making us write out long passages of it as a punishment.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Punishments at the convent were a little less cerebral.........
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Bern, Tom - sorry but this is frankly absurd.
What on earth do you think the rich do with their wealth - have it all stuffed under the bed? I find the attitudes expressed rather old fashioned and to say the least ill-informed, perhaps based on prejudice.
A lot of that wealth is held in assets, some of these assets represent investment in businesses, sometimes in property. They spend a lot of dosh on goods and services provided by many people - including members of this forum. Eat in restaurants, drink, maintain their properties and so on.
Love of money, I doubt that too - love of the lifestyle it brings, maybe, love of the security it provides perhaps. In some cases it also provides that adrenaline rush from risk taking - putting the money into enterprises using EIS and VCT schemes or maybe Branson-like escapades. Speaking if which, what about the co-founder of Microsoft putting $300,000,000 into a manned commercial space project to follow his obsession in space exploration. This money is providing jobs and improved standard of living for many people and could open up whole new areas of economic growth and development as such have sop often achieved in the past. Others do a great deal for charity, as Bern says, in fact a great many do but do not shout about it like some.
I am amazed that there are still attitudes out there that belong to the Victorian era and were even dubious in truth then.
Not old fashioned at all, and if it were why is that a bad thing?
I am not talking about the assets or particular specific investments - although they do, actually, count as wealth, don't they. I am talking about the obvious (to most people...) love of acquisition that inhabits the very wealthy, the cut-off point from which ordinary life is a dim memory if that and acquisition and the propagation of further wealth becomes more important. In the less well off the "addiction to shopping" factor is similar. I have known many wealthy people - tootled about Datchet and thereabouts in my yoof with the fabulously wealthy and very famous (I was young and quite nice then!) and they really, genuinely, do have that love of money in common, on the whole. I don't think they have it stuffed under the bed - don't patronise me Barry - but in their heads I guess the same attitude is present for many. Not all.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 50............`Elite Greedy Pigs`.......................Philanthropists ??
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter.
A good example of "very antithesis of reasoned argument"
Is when I agree with BarryW, that Gordon Brown is at fault and then being told "
"I prefer to hide from, the truth"
"I don't know what deficit is"
"I am not interested in hard facts"
I have said on many occasions, that cuts have to be made and the NHS needs sorting out, as does the benefits system.
But then I am accused of.
"I live in some fantasy world in which spending cuts need not be made"
I have tried to be friendly, I have tried patience I have even tried ignoring him but I will agree with him once more and that is to say I certainly don't understand him.
He has an amazing ability to answer posts that he clearly has not read properly.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - you should read what I say in full and in the context of what you say. Reasoned discussion between differing points of view can be held here and there are several with whom I enjoy such discussions, but with you it is impossible and I respond to the tone of what you post. Reasoned argument does indeed go out of the window with you. Friendly and patient are certainly not attributes I associate with you - the direct opposite in fact and you are, to be honest, the one person on this site that I actually dislike despite never having met you. You get the response from me you deserve.
Bern - I am not patronising you as such, I would never do that! merely making a point. What you are crediting as attitudes to some of the wealthy, as you indeed say, is something shared by all sorts of people, not just the very rich. In fact the 'old money' people I have met are amongst the most immune to the latest must have and this need for flashy wealth. Personally I do not think much of those who simply must get the latest designer trainers, or who want Cartier watches or whatever boxers label is in vogue - and the 'rich' attitudes that mirror it. M&S is good enough for me!!! Much as I personally despise that kind of spending and acquisition and I have known people to foolishly get into massive debt that way, it nevertheless provides trade for struggling retailers, distributors and manufacturers. Me I prefer to put a part of my pension into a fund investing in consumer labels to cash in on the idiots who spend over the odds...
And what is wrong with my own personal favourite, Waitrose?! Kidding! (Although it is my personal favourite!) And you are right, the Old Money has an alternative approach to money, but just because a dependence is quiet does not mean it is any less rife or toxic! But we will, I am sure, agree to disagree as we usually do - that is, when we are not agreeing, which happens with alarming regularity.........,
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
Let's try breaking it down a bit.
You state that its Gordon Brown fault and I agreed with you.
Your response to that was
"I prefer to hide from the truth"
How is that, reasoned argument?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Gary - as I have said you need to read the whole exchange and place it fully in context not selected parts.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Of course my theme was 'money', not mere provincial wealth or riches. Nor of the characters of some means one may rub shoulders with at the local Toyota/Lexus dealership or the nineteenth tee.
Money, that was once a near universal means of exchange and is fast becoming nothing but a intellectual construct.
From the history of industrial magnates and the talk of Millionaires we have driven down the real value of money. Who now wants to be a common or garden Millionaire in a world of multi-millionaires, Billionaires and multi-billionaires?
Our most recent age of happy-clappy Croesus-creating click-festivity where first there was almost immeasurable wealth and then there was none has left most of the world indebted to make-up a shortfall with real-money where there was only the thought or semblance of riches.
Doubtless in a world where money is reduced to little more than the marks I make upon the screen in front of you; fortunes won and lost in the blink of an eye, danger surely lurks, but not for the players at the table. Alas little or none of the money that was lost belonged, in any sense, to those who lost it and those who won cant get theirs unless and until they make beggars of us all.
Soon there will be no more talk of pocket or purse the "Wealth of Nations" shall be reduced to the ever-increasing sets of digits on the data-base of secret bank accounts...
Use it or lose it, I say.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
garyc
to be fair to barryw he will never listen to reasonable exchanges
he never has and never will
but hey ho thats what makes a forum(so im told) lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Back and stirring then Keith.