howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
typical tory thinking.it should be a few quid higher to encourage people to work.
an old adage,"pay peanuts and you employ monkeys".
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I have told you before, the minimum wage locks people into low pay and creates a low pay norm for some industries by eliminating any need to compete for staff. Nice to see David Foley is still active in some way even if he is not going far enough in this.
Why do you want more people out of work Brian?
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
no barry,more people in work,earning a decent wage without the need for claiming benefits.or is that to hard to understand barry.
its my understanding is that the goverment wants to cut benefits,not increase them.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
david is clearly being disingenuous if he expects us to believe that he worked for nothing to get started, in that era one could drag ones knuckles along the pavement, grunt at everybody and still be offered a choice of gainful employment.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
"They should be going to companies to say they will work for them for free for four weeks. There's nothing wrong with working for free to prove yourself - That's what I did."
I did that too, in Dover, when I was ten.
Come on, Mr. Foley, time to move on! Have you nothing better to offer to young adults??!!!
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I wonder if being condescending is something that you also learn on the way up the ladder?
Nobody wants idle young people but as you say Howard, times are completely different.
Why don't we all work for nothing and make everything free?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Many people who start businesses do not take an income out of them at first and even when established earn less then employees who may be on the minimum wage. I know many who run small businesses like that. We have to pay our employees before taking any income ourselves. In fact there were some difficult times when I would give my employee a pay rise in years when my own income had dropped by 20%. That is not unusual, it goes with running a business and we accept it.
It is simplistic thinking that a minimum wage actually helps the low paid and to suggest a higher min wage would do anything other than depress the jobs market is absurd.
A better way to help those on a minimum wage and to boost employment would be to raise the income tax and NI thresholds to match the minimum wage at 40 hours a week. That would increase their income without costing jobs or raising costs to employers.
You all also should realise that auto-enrollment is in the process of being introduced and as each business hits its 'staging date' the costs of employing people will increase - 3% of relevant income will be the cost to employers plus the costs of very onerous administration. This will not encourage businesses to employ more people and may well cut jobs as it is.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
You have clearly climbed the same ladder Barry.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
people who start up a new business would have money put by as they would know it would take a while to start earning out of it, all very different to youngsters who are looking for their first job.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 8.......Another BW camouflage job ...............is that rude ?................
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Why no proper contribution? Did you not read what I actually said? One liners are rude without proper discussion and explanation.
Do you challenge the extra costs and problems auto-enrollment provides to employers?
Do you challenge that extra costs whether it be on wages, pensions or taxes can swing a decision against the employment of extra people, expanding a business or even whether to reduce your staffing levels?
Do you challenge the fact that increasing tax allowances will improve the income or those on min wage without increasing costs to employers?
Do you challenge the statement that a minimum wage sets a norm in many industries so an employer does to have to even think about how much to offer?
Do you actually even care about the problems and concerns that challenge small businesses?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
This living wage thing is a nonsense. As have pointed out, raising the tax and NI threshold so those earning at the min wage level are not paying tax or NI will provide an income equivalent to this so called living wage without further damaging interference in the markets. Government do best when they leave alone.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Raising the tax and NI threshold would mean a marginal increase in the take-home wage of those on or near the minimum and yet be of more considerable benefit to the employer, such benefit increasing with the greater proportion of min-wage employees.
And as such, will not give the bulk of customers on the high street any more spending power, but yet would go some little way in offsetting the continued shortfall in company profits. A virtual stand-still then.
For it would not be long, under these circumstances, for prices to grow to swallow-up the little extra in the wage packets.
Further, the doing away with the employer-subsidy that is Tax Credits would start us all off on the downward slope once more.
Simply put, if we cannot (or dare not) increase the take-home wage we will have to look to reducing the short fall between income and outgoings;caps on rent, utilities and transport costs.
Increasing the disposable income of the majority has to be the goal, for this alone will increase confidence and spending in the only market that matters to the majority of people and to SMEs.
The country cannot continue to be run solely for the benefit of those involved in purely-speculative investment. We cannot go on making votive offerings on the altar of self-serving financial shysters.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
I see barry is a confirmed rude tuber.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
will be interesting to see the reaction from the federation of small businesses, the promise of lower business rates must be a lure for them.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
Do you actually even care about the problems and concerns that challenge employees?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
The minimum wage has become the wage for millions of workers.
Kept low by mass inflows of cheap conservative and labour party immigration
Much better to cap immigration, tax imports from countries that do not operate free markets and manipulate currency rates.
And restrict benefits and housing to uk citizens only
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Minimum wage is just that the bare minimum that employers should pay,
now if we can find more and better ways of improving the way of those on the minimum wage then so be it
but we do need convincing
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS