Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW & Paul #49 & #50
Full time employment, instead of zero or 20 hour contract's, would also stimulate growth.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
nice to see everyone getting on lol
the minumum wage even tories have been agreeing has not put people out of work.
roger has made some interesting points
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I laid off 5 full time staff in Jan 2008 when the minimum wage had just gone above £5 and we employers also had to start paying holiday pay for almost 5 weeks of the year. At the time Gwyn wrote an article in the DE praising the Labour government for introducing the MW and saying it was their crowning achievement. I wrote to the paper pointing out that it had just cost 5 jobs in Castle St and that my action was probably the tip of the iceberg.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
lets go back to the cloth cap at the gate pleading for a job guv !!!
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Peter, perhaps the 5 staff found a minimum wage job soon-after!
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
oh you are naughty alexander
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
One thing is for sure, Keith, the Coalition will not abolish either the minimum wage or the working tax credit, to do so would land them straight in the opposition 100% guaranteed. As an estimate, I'd say 15 million people would be directly affected with such cuts, including family members of workers.
We would in effect become a third world country.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
65, actually only 2 were on minimum wage, one was on a salary of £23,000 but have you heard of grade compression? And actually we helped them all find new jobs and none lost out. Don't try to cast me in the role of Scrooge, Alexander.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The simple fact that for most businesses giving the staff a pay rise reduces directly the pay of the business owner as would have been the case for Peter. Most business owners work far longer hours than any employee, take big risks and will often even end up with less income than some they employ. The failure rate of businesses is evidence of the latter.
#54 Howard - Of course. Why then do you think I have been saying for ages now that a more aggressive attack on the deficit is needed alongside supply side reforms?
#57 Reg - Yes indeed, the economically ill-educated. If you let the blind lead the sighted.
#61 GaryC - You have to get to that first and that is the whole point. Though defining 'full employment' is another subject on its own.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
KeithB, we're getting there.
Hiring more when busy, employing fewer when not so, is entirely sensible and I am all for it.
BUT!
The way this has been done historically must change. Up until the present time a motor mechanic has given more regard to what happens to the spanner he has laid down than many employers give to their workforce. It is high time we took the same care of people that we do of our tools.
The cry for a drastic reduction in the Deficit is far too simplistic and one-sided.
All those laid off should be placed on the rack, clean and oiled, ready for the next job rather than thrown upon the midden of unemployment. There to languish until shovelled-up and cast again into the grinder of work, there to be ground down and chipped and nicked and made less useful for the next time.
The idea of starving people back into servitude is as productive as it's source. Those who play around with money and have zero regard for the fellow man (and woman, and children).
It has been the growing intensity of focus upon money that is responsible for bringing us to this present sorry pass. When all praise and esteem, and reward, goes to speculators and those whose effort is required for all businesses to prosper (that would be the workforce) are treated worse than beasts of the field, something is badly wrong.
PaulW, the owner/runner of a SME that borrows on the value of his home often seeks to transfer the risk to their employees and not until each one has lost his or her home does that risk transfer back, yet any and all reward for success stays with him.
The salient point in my #47:
The employed work for their living.
Why should anybody work to the betterment of an employer when there is nothing but risks of all sorts for them and benefits only for the businessman?
Which brings us neatly back to thread's title: Living wage!
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i would love to know what a sme is?
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Small and Medium sized Enterprise.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
thanks tom i learn something new every day.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 69....once again you are one plus the `few`in a very small minority on this one.....the economically ill-educated,including
Cameron,Boris etc,know its good for business and well-fare of staff
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Tom - #70 there speaks someone who has never employed someone and has never taken personal financial risk to run a business.
Talk is so easy.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Barry, how many cars did Henry Ford ever make?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Barry, its your builder/brain surgeon analogy. People who have never run a business telling those who do how to run it.
No man has the right to demand a job from another.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barryw,talk is cheap with zero vat,action speaks louder than words.but no doubt you woul try and prove me wrong.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
As i'v stated on here before there are many talents on this forum, as well as expertese, all have viewpoints and who's to say who is right?
alexander;
you like researching so maybe you could research views of barryw/roger/ and others who are against tax credits
and the majority party in the co olition who would like to do away with them.
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
You are both, all, quite correct.
Sadly, for you both, all. We live in a Democracy.
Why then anybody should feign surprise at the fact of the broad view differing from the narrow stance is something unworthy of time and effort to pursue.
I could take the narrow stance, and say, "Ya-boo-sucks", to those with whom I disagree, and to the small minded this is attractive, but it will not do for the greater good of our nation or defend us from again falling into our present trap.
The truth of the matter is that Britain/the UK has lived under the conditions you both, all, espouse, the narrow stance of the few atop the Pyramid Scheme:How was life then, how did we get where we are?
The supreme fact is that I am a consumer, that breed of individual that never gets a mention in talk of the wonders performed by the risk-taking, go-getter, but without whom there would be no need of 'business'.
If there was a right of a businessman to call upon the services of another without regard to the well-being of the other we would be now living in your Utopia, but nobody would be making a living. Those necessary folk that make a purchase from 'A', do not print-up the wherewithal so to do, they earn it from making something those employed by 'A' might also wish to buy. We moved on from barter at a cost, a cost to all, and a convenience to all. There can only be trouble and strife when the cost and benefit are assigned without due regard to the least of us, and are skewed to the advantage of the insistent avarice of the few.
Politics IS big stuff and does not become less so by concentrating upon the 'employer' and neglecting the 'consumer'. Be reassured, the SME backbone of our economy needs attention, attention that it has never received from either the Red or the Blue.
Quite why you are content, nay insistent upon, regarding the working population/consumer as your enemy is beyond me.
That these same voices rejoice at the thought of tax haven Britain and the aplomb of some businesses to rake in custom and cash (that then cannot be spent in your shop) and pay nothing back leaving the burden of taxation upon you static and home country centred enterprises is astonishing.
You both, all, seem to live for nothing but to beshit upon your fellow countrymen and women and children.
Me-me-me!? Ya-boo-sucks!
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.