Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Government interference with the market rate is always wrong. That includes the minimum wage and tax credits. These are actually achieving the opposite to what is intended locking people into low incomes and the benefit society.
Low wages should be a stepping stone to higher pay through reliable hard work. What we have now is a low pay norm for most industries that eliminates a stepping stone and, what is more, adding to the problem is an oversupply of overseas workers and a reluctance by British unemployed to take up jobs thanks to excessive benefits.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barryw,good theroy but will not work out in practice.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Of course it works in practise - its the theory of subsidising wages through tax credits and distorting the market through a minimum wage that is clearly not working. The supply of foreign labour and high benefits add to the problem.
Eliminate market distortions and you will restore the 'step ladder' to better pay and increase job supply.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
wonder how barryw /peter/ philip view your posting roger
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Roger's idea won't fly. In fact it would sink faster than a paper boat in a force nine. All that would happen is that wage inflation would lead to hyper inflation via higher taxes to pay for government subsidies to pay for the scheme and higher wages demanded by those already on a higher pay scale. Wage differentials is a natural effect in a capitalist market where those with skills or the ambition to better themselves are iincentivized by higher pay.
What would be the point in learning a trade or profession if you can get yourself a job in a bar and earn £10 per hour instead of putting yourself out to earn a little more?
Soon after a scheme like this would kick in the cost of everything would rise and the national deficit would soar to astronomical proportions in order to pay for it. We would have to borrow from the markets in order to finance the idea and the cost of borrowing would soar as the markets lose confidence in UK plc.
So the viscous circle means higher national debt, increased inflation, demands from unions to maintain the differential between skilled and unskilled workers etc. etc. etc.
So, No, it's a non-starter.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
BTW...
Cheap Christmas Stamps For Benefit Claimants
"Benefit claimants are able to buy Christmas stamps at last year's prices under a Royal Mail scheme that starts today.
The move is designed to make sending season's greetings cards more affordable for those on lower incomes.
The Royal Mail's scheme allows eligible customers to buy a total of 36 first and second class stamps at 46p and 36p respectively.
Stamp prices increased to 60p and 50p in April.
Customers on pension credit, employment and support allowance or incapacity benefit are eligible to take part in the scheme, which runs until Christmas Eve.
The discount is available at all of the 11,500 Post Offices across the country, but customers need to show documents proving they are on the relevant benefits.
Stephen Agar, the Royal Mail's director of regulated business, said the scheme would help customers who are "facing extremely tight budgets this Christmas"."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cheap-christmas-stamps-brits-benefits-001319855.htmlIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Raise the min wage to £10ph and two things would happen, prices would rise and employers would lay off staff.
As Keith repeatedly tells us, the gap would widen.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Perhaps raising the minimum wage to £10 would lead to a return to direct employment?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Nope, if everyone on the min wage gets a payrise in excess of 50% companies will either put prices up accordingly or sack staff, probably both.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I would see Roger's scheme as a libdem type of social engineering which would be open to widespread abuse. Having had training in fraud detection in banks, I have an eye for the opportunities and I can imagine the criminal fraternity rubbing their hands with glee.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Is the minimum wage £6.66? Not that £10 is the figure banded about.
The total denial of the avenue back to direct employment that may open up does not further the discussion either. Is it unreasonable to estimate the added cost of agency/ outsourcing employment at about 50%?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Companies choose to use employment agencies rather than directly employ full time staff, nobody is legally bound to use them.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Minimum wage is £6.19, equating to a cost of £7.04 when employer NICs are taken into account.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Companies choose to, they may choose otherwise though. Nobody wishes to force them, David.
Peter, is there pressure to reduce the employers NIC, is it likely to get anywhere with increased unemployment?
A whole bundle of measures might accompany the upping of MW.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Tom, have you ever directly employed anybody?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
wonder how barryw feels on your proposal roger
me thinks he wont support you
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Never on the cheap David
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
The glib answer I expected.
Ask any SME, theres tens of thousands of them, what happens if the min wage is raised by 50% Tom.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
minimum wage didnt have that affect david
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Keith, you constantly say that the gap is widening, that has coincided with the minimum wage.
Employers are struggling as it is, tell them the min wage is going up they'll simply lay off staff and put up prices.
Its reality Keith, SMEs employ hundreds of thousands of people, increasing the min wage will be enough to put plenty more out of business. Ask Peter, Barry, myself and others that employ people in the town.