12 October 2010
18:3174689Howard Mcsweeny,
Of course the rescuers would have wished for a more positive outcome and so do I. However the fact remains whether you like it or not she volunteered for Afghanistan and I say again she must have been aware of the risks. This is not a question of whether I approved of her decision or not, it is fact.
Nothing personal
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"If |I get it right no one remembers,if I get it wrong nobody forgets"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
12 October 2010
19:0674691I think it ought be said here, in general, that the USA does not approve of hostages being ransomed for money, in cases like this, so as not to encourage groups to take more hostages. If the area in question was part of U.S. operations zone, then that would explain why no other possibilities to secure the release of the hostage were explored.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
12 October 2010
19:1274692We don't have the full details so maybe best to wait for more details.
Whatever my opinion of cameron think In this one situation he handled it well.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
12 October 2010
19:3974708Keith! The hostage was killed! Did you read the headlines today? A cam registered the operation, and a grenade was flung, by .... 'handled it well' is at least superfluous, out of respect for the family of the dead Scottish lady!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 October 2010
19:4474710most unfair alex, the p.m. and willie had to make a decision on intelligence presented to them.
they gave the go ahead for the ill fated rescue on the grounds that the hostage would be killed shortly.
i think that when things calm down the family of the lady will attach no blame to dave.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
12 October 2010
19:4874711Howard, I didn't blame the PM, I only meant that, considering the outcome of the operation, it is somewhat like salt in the wounds to say 'he handled it well!'
Today I saw a headline stating that a grenade was flung, and that this caused the young lady's death. It was aparently registered on a camera, and the one who flung it was...well, you mighjt read it in the news-paper.
It still leaves open the question as to whether there was a possibility to pay a ransom for her freedom.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
12 October 2010
19:5174714I'm with Jimmy on this one (as sad as it is and with no disrespect to her family) she knowingly and willingly went to one of the most dangerous regions on earth knowing the risk and got kidnapped, that's as a direct result of her actions and the kidnappers actions.
Everyone else involved, armed forces and politicians from all countries, are just doing their best to deal with the consequences.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
12 October 2010
19:5774716I know Ray, but she only wanted to do good, and I am too soft-hearted to admit that she would have been better advised to stay well away from that area, now that she is dead. But may-be Gov. should warn people for the future, that ransoms will not be paid if they are abducted by groups seeking money. I mean, better to point it out straight-forwardly so that people know before-hand.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
12 October 2010
20:5174723The lady knew the risks to when she decided to go as do all the other 'do gooders' who venture into war zones. That is up to them but I must admit it annoys me that when they get captured it means putting their rescuers lives at risk.
With regards to Alexander's comments, how was the PM supposed to handle things, it was a no win situation. As for paying a randsom we NEVER do and never should, so unless "people" have been on a desert island they know this already.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 October 2010
20:5674725i have to disagree with most posters here, ms norgrove was ably qualified to earn a small fortune here but was driven to implement her skills to helping fellow human beings that were not so advantaged.
i only wish i had just 1 per cent of her courage and compassion.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 October 2010
21:1574728I think those that are critical of her going into the war zone and/or of an attempted rescue are forgetting one crucial point.
If we are to win our objectives in Afghanistan, namely a more stable 'west friendly' country in which there is no succor for terrorists then we need more than a pure military solution.
We need to win a battle for hearts and minds.
This does need people like this lady, unattached to the military, working to better the lives of the Afghans. The military have a hearts of minds role as well to play but it is not all down to them. Remember also that we British have experience of hearts and minds being played successfully in Malaya and in Oman.
So, yes - we need people like her. We need also the courage and professionalism of our armed forces, and the special forces in particular, who would all volunteer to go into the most dangerous situations and attempt a rescue such as this that tragically failed. This is what they are payed for, what they are good at and what they want to do, without question. They know the risks and are willing undertake those risks.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
12 October 2010
21:5474736To follow on from your point Barry, in Aghanistan, as I believe it is a male dominated culture, surely a male volunteer would have been more apt, they would have taken very little serious notice of a 'meer' woman.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
12 October 2010
22:3774748Well Jan, I only found out this evening for the first time that 'in the UK' as they write on certain job-sites, there are over 50.000 (yes fifty thousand) nanny jobs going, mainly in London and the South-East. I am somewhat aquainted with British job-sites, but only found out this evening because I googled 'employment in Poland'!
The actual number of nanny jobs going in Poland, called 'au par' were 14!
May I be right in suggesting that many British femalesre unaware of such employment potential in our (own) Country?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
12 October 2010
22:4474749The only skill that was requested for a nanny job in the UK was some knowledge of first-aid, that was all! I mean, you can check it up for yourself on Google, if you think I'm inventing this! I even found one agency offering only Poles for employment in Britain, who are already resident in the U.K., with indications for the employers ('in the U.K.') that the agency staff are bilingual, speaking English and Polish!
I think somewhere the line is overstepped, and someone has definitely broken the anti-racial discrimination laws, only, I got behind it!
12 October 2010
23:1474758Howard Mcsweeney,
There is little point in you telling us that Linda Norsgrove could have earned a lot of money if she had stayed in this country. That her conscience told her to help the poor,well she could have done that quite safely from these shores and no risk. We all make some bad decisions in life unfortunately she chose a decision which cost her her life. No one else is to blame only Linda Norsgrove
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"If i get it right no one remembers,if I get it wrong no one forgets"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 October 2010
06:3474765Jan - I have to disagree. Yes it is a male dominated culture, so how do you think a male aid worker in such circumstances will be allowed near the women who need help? The women there do need help and that is best delivered by ladies like Linda Norsgrove.
Without people like her and those soldiers who attempted her rescue we would all be a lot poorer.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
13 October 2010
18:3174851BARRYW
Have to say I fully agree with you lol
9ouch that hurt) lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 October 2010
18:3674857quite right keith and barry, the lady and others like her are vital in places like afghanistan.
without the likes of her they would just see westerners as people that bomb their wedding receptions and apologising afterwards
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 October 2010
21:1474919Howard - as we see them as people who bomb tube trains, fly aircraft into skyscrapers and bomb nighclubs in Bali.
Let is not forget where this all started.
The big difference is they they commit their acts of murder deliberately. Targetting innocent families.
Civilians caught in the war in Afghanistan and killed by allied forces are 'collateral damage', sad and tragic mistakes. In war mistakes happen. Terrible but true.
There is absolutely no moral equivalence.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
13 October 2010
21:5174928But the Scottish lady deserves our full respect! She put her own life at risk, doing good for others!
