Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Blimey, last night the lords overturned the cobbled together governments police commissioners bill, voting it out altogether.
the tory minister in the commons is now saying, thats fine, we will just overturn it.
funny this was le by the lib dems in the lords against there own cobble together govt. with ex police chiefs, bishops etc voting with the lib dems
another crack appears,,,,,,,,,
cleggy quoted as saying he can see no reason why the cobbled together cant now sit back and delay the bill for further talks and some pilots.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
all a bit farcical, how can unelected people overturn a decision by elected representatives?
then the minister says they can overturn the decision, would be simpler and more efficient to close the house of lords.
if we need a second chamber then let it be an elected one.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
This was another defeat for Clegg though. When he spoke yesterday of more muscular involvement he didnt expect the muscularity to kick his own policy into touch. The Libdem Peers voted with the Labour Peers I beleive. oh my Gawd..its a Lib-Lab pact!!
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
HOWARD;
I don't disagree with your view on an elected second house
would stop this flooding the place with your pals that goes on by all parties at the moment, but bearing in mind the present cobbled together govt flooded the place when elected this is a rather surprizing result.
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Looking at it objectively I don't think the differences between the coalition partners are any greater than those between the two or three main factions in the Labour party during the previous three parliaments.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
This realy is fantastic news, tory member peter not recognising the splits opening up in the cobble together govt,
to name but a few
police commissioners
benefits
N.H.S.
All big big issues that will divide the two parties,
already there are shouts of "off with there heads" lol
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Not a Tory member Keith.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith's salivating at any suggestion of any coalition 'split' is quite a laugh.
Back to real life....
The Police Commissioners are an important reform that will allow the public to influence policing priorities. It was part of the coalition agreement and clearly Cleggy has a problem with his members in the Upper House.
That said may I remind everyone that the HoL is a reviewing Chamber and, as such, has an important role to play. The government must respond by reviewing that legislation and returning to the HoL.
All governments lose votes in the Lords and quite rightly so, if they did not then the Lords would not be doing their job.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Mr Bliar used to invoke the Parliament Act to over-rule the Lords in such cases- something it was not intended for.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I dont think that can be used until a piece of legislation has been rejected by the Lords twice. But you are quite right, Blair has the record for the number of uses of the Parliament Act.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barryw,how much is this review costing the tax payer.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Yes of course the H.O.L has a role to play, not sure it's present format is the best option but there you have it.
Indeed cleggy now has to rally the troops, which isn't going to be easy for him and whenb you get incident after incident highlighted on how the cobbled together govt is falling apart you can see cleggy is in a no win situation.
stay where he is and he will isolate himself from the lib dems even more
go from the co-olition will see lib dems destroyed at the ballot box
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Brian - it is all about the tried and tested checks and balances in our system that has evolved over the centuries. You cannot out a price on that.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Barry
do you think this proposal will really get any more people out to elect a Police Commissioner than will get out to vote for an MP? With a mandate of about 30% can they really be representative?
If you look at
http://www.kent.police.uk/about_us/attachments/policing_plan_2011_14.pdf
the police claim that their strategy is already based on consultation with the public. I don't see the value in this exercise.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Their strategy is based as much on consultation with their union as with the public. Everything I have seen from the police regarding budget cuts has been the turkey's well-presented argument against Christmas.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Can you really say that policing priorities reflect public attitudes? I certainly dont think so.
Consultations can be ignored or 'worked' to get the answers you want and so on.
Clearly it is always best that people vote but I do not see that a possible mandate of 30% is an issue - many, many councils have mandates of less than that.
A regular election, perhaps alongside a KCC poll to save costs, for a local police commissioner creates accountability in a way that general elections and councils elections cannot do. A single person being held responsible and to account can make a huge difference.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
It needs to be a person with influence Barry, otherwise we are just electing a lamb to the slaughter.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Election itself would confer influence and the person concerned need not be a politician as such. This is also where the selection/election process comes in to find a strong personality who can carry off the job.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
peter;
just as a side issue the police don't have unions
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