Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Thank you for your support on this one Marek ,and I will add to this that most of the public in Dover that see the true facts of the case not the ones that were taken out by both the D.H.B. and the so called P/P feel the same as we do,when the public of the town went to the polls well only 5000 did out of 28+000 they was not voting on the true facts they were voting on just how the P/P told them and the way they put it.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Which is the same with any election. All of us ignorant people have to listen to the facts as presented to us by all sides and then make up our own minds.
Just because you disagree with the result it does not mean you are right and the vast majority are wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Vic my friend you are beginning to sound like a cracked gramophone record stuck in one groove.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
I happen to know of at least two other non-housing related (IPS's) mutuals in this country that are 100% debt funded, one of which beat off private capital competition to secure Welsh Water for £2bn (Vic, that's quite a bit more than we need for Dover) and now runs an operation that is more efficient than its private capital counterparts in the water industry. The other mutual managed £500 million to finance the set up of Gas supply to N. Ireland. Both these mutuals are doing very well and have funded their acquisitions entirely through the issue of long term investment grade bonds. If we take just a brief look overseas, then the most efficient air traffic control system in the world is also run by a debt bond funded mutual. Just FYI...what DPPT intend works, and works very well.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Neil, you are right in supposing that the DHB sale plan would lead the Port into financial ruin, but there is a third option, which is not to alter the general outlay of the DHB charter, hence no form of privatisation would be required, and no debts would be incured.
The P/p plan would lead to a situation where the Port would be having to return the borrowed money to the City, and Dover wouldn't see anything of any incomes other than peanuts.
By not privatising Dover Harbour Board at all, the Port won't need to pay back any money, and would be debt-free.
This is the third option.
Vic rightly points out that 75% of us people of Dover - me included - didn't vote in the parish poll, despite all the PR.
That's 15,000+ people!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Alex
By not voting you and ''15,000+ people'' missed your opportunity to vote against the proposal.
Democracy rules.
Ranters, Bums and Clones
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Marek, we who didn't vote agreed neither with the one option nor the other presented in the Parish poll. We were the vast majority!
By all rights, there should be a question asking us if we want the Port privatised at all!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Fair point.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Alex then you didn't read the question properly. If you want a referendum on keeping Dover a trust port, arrange it yourself. Vic will help you!
Taorluaths, leumluaths and pinkie birls.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Too late, Peter. Gov. has been told that 25% of Dover's people voted in favour of Port privatisation, DHB must be laughing.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Worse still, they will have told Gov. that no-one voted against Port privatisation.
How can one be so blinkered?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Sorry, Peter
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Another way of reading the poll is to say 75% of Dover's population could not care less what happens regarding the port sale.
Statistics can be read in so many different ways.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Jan
I agree with your comments.To be honest if DTIZ,Crypt etc are anything to go by then our grandchildren will still be arguing as to what should happen to the Port.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think that the intervention of a major player like p & o will have an influence on the final decision made by the secretary of state.
the government will be hammered over the localism stuff if any other decision is made.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Of course, it is impossible to know what the the people who didn't vote actually think about the whole deal...they didn't, or were unable to, express a preference one way or the other. Claiming them for one point of view or another point of view is disingenuous. There are a number of reasons that people failed to vote only one of which is claimed by Alex and Vic.....Polls, under the legislation, were only open 1600-2100, so everyone working on a 1400-2200 shift was unable to vote (in Dover that is approx 5000 people, no one can claim their views one way or another).....under the legislation there were no postal or proxy votes allowed (many of the elderly and infirm were unable to get to polling stations, so there's another few thousand people who cannot be claimed either way).....add to that the very large number of people who contacted me to see if they could somehow manage to register a vote even though they had to be away on the day due to work related travel or holiday and the assertion made above that 15000 people failed to vote because they did not agree with the option posed in the question looks increasingly ridiculous.
Those that were able to vote, voted against privatisation Alex. That was absolutely clear. What they voted in favour of was community ownership and a structure that guarantees that community ownership in perpetuity, a guarantee not afforded by Trust Port Status. What they voted for was a Port that cooperates with and serves its stakeholders, not one that dictates to them.
When independent organisations polled their members outside the strict rules imposed by the Local Government Act and were therefore able to ask questions separately...Do You Oppose DHB privatisation? Do you support community ownership? Do you want the port to stay as it is? 90% plus were against DHB privatisation, 88% were in favour of community ownership and only a very few believed that continued Trust Port Status was the best option. I'm sorry to burst the bubble, but from all the evidence, the views espoused above purporting to represent the majority would appear not to do so
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Just a little rider....97.5% of people who voted, voted against privatisation and in favour of communitisation, that is the message that has gone to Government
Guest 717- Registered: 16 Jun 2011
- Posts: 468
Has anyone read the letter that a P&O boss has sent to the government about the sale of the Port? Read it on Kent local news last night. She raises some valid points. Apologise for not posting link it's a bit of a pain to do on my phone! P&O chief executive Helen Deeble, Kent news online.
Keeps politics to myself
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Your way is Privatisation to, again we see you and your backers using words, the only way not to see the port sold off, is to see it stay a royal port within the royal charter. You keep on about your 97%of 5000 that voted if in the town that is less then 25% of the public but if you take the number of public in the D.D, that is less then 8% even you must see that. And the Government know that to.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Have you told the Secretary of State that, Vic, in your response to the revised criteria published by him for consultation?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson