Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Guardian also takes the same view
worried about those that go through the test and end feeling they are failures
and often this stays with them for life.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
Surely not you , Keith? LoL
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
The Guardian eh? Oh that Guardian where most of it's staff ARE middle class and whose managerial staff and readers went to private schools. That would be that Guardian.
And the mirror? Oh that mirror. The favourite of the proletariat who consider themselves above those who choose to read the Sun and whose readers have a chip on their shoulders because they failed the 11 plus.
Why on earth people quote from the mirror is beyond me. It's like me quoting something from Old Moores almanac or telling everyone that the end of the world is nigh because some bloke down the road had it written on a sandwich board.
Come on everyone. Face up to the fact that our education system has been hijacked and abused by politicians (especially but not exclusively by the labour party) which is why we rank so low in terms of developed world rankings.
Our only hope is for more grammar schools so that the next generations can at least produce some intelligent folk to earn a crust for the country.
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
It does seem incredible that this country is prepared to hold back the brightest pupils in order to ensure that those less academically able student don't feel left behind. The real tragedy is the loss of Grammars in inner cities, where they really could offer a brighter future to some of the poorest children in the country. The stupid thing is that failing to get into Grammar school is not the end of the world. Plenty of pupils have gone on from High schools to achieve great exam results, because they have applied themselves.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
SW Wood/philip
no one disputes that helping others is of course the way,
But noting what happens to those that don't make it, fail the test, and affect on there lives should be considered
these are not quotes from guardian or mirror but a headmaster who has had to pick up the pieces
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Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Sorry Keith I don't quite understand the point you're making.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
point iv made many times philip
it appears that some accept those that fail dont matter
im afraid i done go with that
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Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Ray - post #3 - and some fell on stony ground? lol Agree with you.
I have 3 sons, 2 went to secondary schools and the other to DGSB.
The latter went to uni, gained a good degree and now has an excellent job at a university where he is team leader in his IT dept.
The other 2?
The youngest did a Saturday job at a small local tyre fitters, making tea, sweeping up etc but also learning. He is now assistant manager of his firms flagship branch and was recently offered his own branch.
The other did lots of jobs when he left school and finally settled with a local and well known breakdown recovery firm where he has been a respected driver for a good few years now.
All 3 earn good money and enjoy their working lives.
Am I proud of them all? You bet I am. Just pointing out though that even if a child doesn't go to a grammar school they can still do well. I am an ex grammar school pupil and so is my husband.
All boils down to the old saying really - life is what you make it.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Jacqui
we often disagree(and agree lol)
nothing falls on stoney ground, I always recognise posters have views, this doesn't mean I have to agree, but respect others viewpoints.
You make a good point on your family, but not all reach those dizzy heights, or have the ability to, some, as i say feel the have failed,
not my words, but those of a headteacher
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Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Two of my three children went to grammar school, one had ambition and did well straight from school, one just plodded along until she was in her early thirties then she suddenly found her feet.
Some will always "fail" as they have no ambition which is vital to succeed in any job, this is more to do with their character than the type of school they go to or the quality of their schooling.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Jan;
We often disagree(and agree lol__)
For some the test at primary school level, can destroy a child
not my words,,,,,,,,,, the words of a headteacher
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Guest 904- Registered: 21 Mar 2013
- Posts: 312
God forbid our children should attempt something and fail - that would never do, eh?
Why, oh why do the bleeding heart liberals and class warfare idiots insist that we teach to the lowest common denominator, rather than let the cream rise to the surface.
My eldest son went through DGSB, secured a Royal Navy scholorship, went to the DSFC in Leicestership and is now studying Marine Engineering as a Midshipman in the RNR. My youngest daughter will be sitting the 11 plus in a couple of years and it will be her choice whether she wants Grammar School - if so we will support her by word and deed, sitting down, doing the practice questions (freely available) and by being normal, supportive parents.
If she fails, she'll have to deal with it and we'll be there for her to rant against. We won't seek counselling, or blame the system, or plead that poverty has adversely affected her chances. She'll just have to deal with the fact that she wasn't good enough, for whatever reason, because that is life.
If she succeeds, it will be because of her own hard work and she will reap the benefits that it brings and bloody good luck to her.
Grammar Schools, or Ability Streaming in Comprehensive Schools, enable those children that are talented and/or work hard, to achieve regardless of their background.
Or we can go with the weak willed and be satisfied with mediocrity.
Guest 904- Registered: 21 Mar 2013
- Posts: 312
Keith Sansum1 wrote:For some the test at primary school level, can destroy a child
not my words,,,,,,,,,, the words of a headteacher
More banal quoting - do you actually, physically, know anyone whose child has been "destroyed" Keith? Some of my lad's school mates didn't make the grade, they were disappointed, but they got on with life and went through the system fine.
I sense you are carrying a grudge against the system, did you fail perchance?
Guest 756- Registered: 6 Jun 2012
- Posts: 727
I think the argument here is not about the pupil, more about the standard of teaching. I think EVERYONE wants the very best for their children, regardless of what they have in the bank! Maybe we need to look at the overall methods of teaching and ensure that they apply in all educational establishments and I am not talking league tables which, in my view, give teachers the option to blame the child and their background rather than the quality of their teaching skills. I have also had experience of a very talented child being neglegted and I quote" we have to concentrate on our under-achievers if we want good Ofsted results"!
I went to DGSG but hated every minute of it.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Good posts Paul.
We all have to deal with failure of one kind or another in life, whether at school or in the work-place and even of course marriage; it doesn't destroy people, it can and usually does make one stronger.
I would/do support grammar schools.
Roger
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
I agree with Paul.
When I went to the Grammar School in Lincolnshire, at that time everyone expected the girls to become teachers, but by the time I was 15 I did not want to do so.
After I left school I studied shorthand, typing and book-=keeping and went into office work, and eventually had my own secretarial and duplicating business.
Although I appreciated the grammar education I had, it would no doubt have been better had I gone to a technical school to learn what I was to do, but I would not think for one minute the education I had at grammar school was wasted.
Throughout life we all have to cope with 'failures' or perhaps that needs to be re-worded 'not doing what everyone else wants one to do' or 'to expect to do', and think of positive sides to student's abilities. I don't like the word failure being used for certain exams, after which teachers/parents often blame the child which is not good. Children always need positive reactions and encouragement.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
good post lesley
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
indeed keith and kath made some excellent points too.
Guest 1057- Registered: 21 Sep 2013
- Posts: 25
#32 Paul I couldn't agree more....life is about working hard to achieve what you want in life, and nothing wrong with starting that early. Also learning that sometimes you win and sometimes you loose! It's tough, that's life!
Both myself and my husband went to standard secondary schools and did well, we run our own business and I also have a good job. I have 3 children, my daughter attends DGGS and my son has recently passed the entry exam for DGSB and we are awaiting a place, the 3rd is only 1 year old so not quite there yet.
I personally have not expected the school to be the sole educator of my children, I think it is important for parents to have an active role and be role models for what can be achieved. Neither children have been tutored but I have spent a lot of time with them and I have worked full time throughout their school years.
I am very proud that both children are grammar school level, not because of any social standing....I came from a poor background and have no airs or graces, but because I hope they will be given the best education possible in a well structured and high standard school.
If at the end of the day they choose to do a run of the mill job, but are happy and content then that's good enough for me....I will be also happy knowing that I did the best I could as a mum! :)
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Grammar schools are the best way for poor kids to get the chance to get to the top
This is why ukip support building more of them.
At the same time we should be developing the trade's skills for the kids that are more skilled hands on.