Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
9 November 2010
15:0579270It cannot get any lower than you tryin to justify the use of torture by George Dubya.....
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
9 November 2010
15:2879271Jimmy Long
Yes I could be wrong so could you, as for high horses I would say yours was a darn sight higher than mine.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
9 November 2010
15:2979272Many people of all political ideas have a dislike of all forms of torture, but i personally think that torture is a double edged weapon in that it creates both in the short and long term more enemies prepared to attack us. Also studies have shown that the majority of information given under torture is already known or else subsequently found to be false. Victims of torture will say what you want to hear just for it to stop. On another point George Bush is the one saying it a true man of truth and honesty oh yeah.
beer the food of the gods
9 November 2010
15:3179273Marek,
It is not often I agree with Barry W, but on this subject I stand full square along side him. We may use the results of torture but that is a whole world of difference than actually using torture.
It should be noted by all you liberal bleeding hearts that it is not our side that plants bombs that kill at random. It is not our side that stone people to death. It is not our side that cuts the limbs from people. Trouble with your point of view you do not deal in reality. Perhaps you could tell me the last time british armed forces planted an independant explosive device?????? and incidentally any british military personnel who "GAVE" there lives?? What a load of bxxxxxx
Our boys and girls are being killed in a nasty dirty war which we should have no part in. As we are involved, we should use every means necessary, and if that includes torture then so be it. If you are going to get involved then we need to do the job 100%
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
9 November 2010
15:4679275Barry re post #15 yes because principles are just that, they are not malleable or idle trinkets to put aside when we are bored with them.
If you cannot stay true to yourself and your principles then you frankly cannot be trusted.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 November 2010
16:0079277barry
it would be reasonable to believe that many were tortured at guantanemo bay.
the vast majority would be the foot soldiers, the elite rarely put themselves in the firing line.
9 November 2010
16:2779279Howard McSweeney,
What on earth do you mean it would be "Reasonable" to assume many were tortured at guantanamo prison???? just who in gods name do you think you are ?? unless I have missed that you are a war crimes trial judge on holiday. Even if you were where is your evidence for such an all embracing statement??
Dont be fooled by what the media tell you. one has to learn to differentiate between what the media wants you to believe and what is the truth. I do not know what is the truth, that is why I refrain from such all encompassing statements as "reasonable truth"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 November 2010
16:5579287calm down jimmy, have a glass of something.
there have been hundreds pass through the doors there, 174 are still there, i doubt that they were given colour television sets and snooker facilities.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
9 November 2010
17:0979293No torture, Barry! No thank you! We don't want it!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
9 November 2010
17:0979294Well said Jimmy. Quite right.
So Ross you go and tell your receptionist just what you have just said - that her life is not worth the waterboarding of a terrorist. That is what you have told us - its very easy to do when it is all academic and theory. i wonder what you would really do if you were in that position.
I admit I would squeeze a terrorists nuts with pliers to get any information needed to save your life or anyone elses, do whatever it takes and to hell with niceties.
9 November 2010
17:2879306Howard, I dare say that those near 3000 innocent victims of the world trade centre could speak the majority of them would say, and quite rightly. "Let those 174 in Guantanomo prison rot there" and I would whole heartedly support such a view.
P.S.
Just having a nice brew with tinned milk, some army things one cant shrug off after all these years!!
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
9 November 2010
17:3679308Barry that is your prerogative
However anyone who knows me well knows what my principles are and also knows that I stand by them.
You're willingness to commit torture does not give you the moral high ground to pontificate to me on the contrary, in my eyes, it puts in the same place as anyone who is prepared to maim, torture or kill for their cause.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
9 November 2010
18:2879323Ah but Ross - this 'moral equivilence' so beloved of the left does not stack up.
I do not want to commit mass murder, to maim and ruin innocent lives, women children and men going about their lawful daily lives.
I want to prevent that - to stop those who, for their perverted cause, want to do harm to your receptionist for one. Those guilty of conspiring to slaughter innocents and have information that may lead to preventing another 9/11, 7/7 or Bali massacre deserves all they get and if that means using unsavoury methods to prevent mass murder and mayhem so be it.
I am not, whatever Howard chooses to paint, in favour of some kind of indescriminate torture of those who 'may' loosely, just possibly, might, know something - but those captured who definately are involved in the planning and excecution of such attrocities - wring the information out of their wretched heads followed by the 9mm solution after to put them out of their mysery.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 November 2010
19:5079348just seen the bush interview,came across as non repentant and propud for condoneing it in the first place.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 November 2010
20:0179351barry
you are twisting my words, i have never accused you of supporting indiscriminate torture.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
9 November 2010
20:1079352Barry! Our Country does not promote torture. Personally I would like to see a review of Queen Anne Boylin's participation in convincing the English monarch of that time to order an end to torture and killing of people who had different religious views. It seems that when she was executed, the monarch didn't listen to mitigating councel, and no-one dared counter him with a request to be milder.
Torture has vanished from our laws, torture in England is illegal! Britain will not accept torture laws!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 November 2010
20:3179362the head of our intelligence service said that his organisation does not use torture.
i was waiting for him to add "it's the way i tell 'em".
9 November 2010
21:1479371Alexander D,
I have got to hand it to you. You really do know how to take the steam out of an argument. We are all so busy jumping on our high horses (Jan included) and dreaming of more efficient ways to make a point. Then you amble along Alex, and throw one of your verbal grenades into the middle of it all and of course we have no other option than to give into your sense of humour, or is it duty?? I dont know. Whatever it is just dont stop posting Alexander. "WE NEED YOU"
One post from you is worth a thousand smiles
12 November 2010
12:5079786Not in my name.
[URL][/URL]
I am, possibly foolishly, willing to take the outside random chance of myself and my loved ones being blown up rather than an individual being tortured.
12 November 2010
13:4579797There is no easy answer, is there? Sometimes we have to trust that those who are committed to protecting us will do just that. We sometimes have to trust that, where necessary, a hard choice will be made as a last resort, that will protect my family, my friends and the people in my town and in my country.
Bob - I do not have an answer. But - if someone broke into my house and I felt we were at risk I would do whatever I had to do to stop him. Isn't it kind of the same?
