Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
In defence of Planning .I was talking to an Officer on Monday about an Application.The regulations that are now enforced is unbelievable .Every week something new comes out .The boxes that have to be ticked etc .
The problems that this country now faces is the fact if something goes wrong you are held accountable .There is always someone ready to claim damages etc
Some of the veiws expressed on here are of a personal nature .Has that person had a personal planning application which in their opinion was not dealt with correctly.? .
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
keith has personal experience along with gordon cowan of intransigence from planning detailed on this and many other past threads.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
I'm not sure what boxes are required to be 'ticked' in order to turn a water stop tap to ''ON''?
Surely all the H&S procedures were checked prior to the fountain being installed and if not why not?
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
The point is Howard .You can only justify complaining if it is your own personal application.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
Things to think about....
No one knows what he can do until he tries.
This is the story of four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was asked to do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did.
Somebody was angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realised that Somebody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed, it is the only thing that ever has...."
"For an idea that does not at first seem insane, there is no hope." (Albert Einstein)
There is a past which has gone forever; but there is a future which is still our own.
Always ask a busy man when you want a job done well. The others haven't the time.
---------------------------------------------------
Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
dovers regeneration has been in the planing since september 1945 and has stood still ever since.the once proud town of dover has now deteriated that much it will need millions of pounds and years of rebuilding to bring it back to pre 1939,then more millions to bring it into the future.
in short the ddc needs to get its finger out from where ever its stuck and get started.to rebuild that is.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Not all the job of DDC Brian - they do not have the power and funds that you seem to credit to it.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Sue, it is not true that you can only complain if you have made an application. If this were the case then 'Planning' would not be a public concern.
The whole point of trying to regulate planning is because the outcome ultimately affects the public, not just the individual that makes the application.
I do think it has been a weakness in Dover. As Barry rightly points out, they do not have the funds to actually 'make' anything. What they do have is the power to direct and facilitate development, something they have failed to do, the planning of the town itself a classic example.
As for complaints and mistakes, I don't know where to start; aesthetically, logically or progressively. The list is endless. Speaking to professionals who do make applications, there does seem to be a consensus that 'Planning' is something DDC must work on!
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
SUE;
Very surprized at your comments, as in the past you have agreed with me.
I hope the chain around your neck is not another cllr who gets in a position of control and sell there soul, i hope im wrong on this one.
With regard to planning, yes for years we have been highlighting the problems on folkestone road, and can tell you again if you so wish with one application to show just how planning officers are the problem.
I spoke on a planning application where a drug den 2 houses was wanting to be changed to a pleasant housing for a particular group.
At the planning meeting officers told me, no way could this applicatiuon go through it didnt fit in with the area and put this in there report for refusal., so seeing i may lose this al together, i went for a site meeting, thankfully this was agreed.
There was no new evidence, and i, and locals put the very same views forward that were put forward at the planning committee.
The chair of the site meeting and committee asked the senior officer how can we pass this application?
to which the officer gave the chair reasons to pass the application!!!
the place is flourishing now, but it shows its not about anby legislation its about if the officer wants it to be passed it usually is.
only by challenging these decisions does it work, but often its uphill, and at times very lonely, when the heat is turned up, often cllrs run away.
i have also highlighted the shortsightness of the planning dept on the rec ground in aycliffe.
other posters i know have even more stories.
so lets not hide behind officers saying its not my fault guv, that don't wash.
Barryw is also correct(blimey did i say that) lol
councils dont have the dosh to provide much, and have few powers ,
it should be about all agencies working together.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
It is a fact that almost all planning applications going to DDC are dealt with by the officers with very few actually going before the elected planning committee. Those few that do see the elected councillors going into the meeting armed with reams of notes from the officers but not the actual plans submitted.
Assuming the officers do work to guidance from the council it woiuld mean they are working to guidance directed by the much smaller 'cabinet' at DDC, this in turn means that they are working to the vision of the leader of the cabinet. Would Paul Watkins care to comment on the acknowledged poor will of DDC's planning to see forward movement in Dover and the lack of consultation with those elected to represent the communities affected?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Sue in answer to your question in #21, the answer is Yes. It was rapidly resolved over a weekend by senior people, followed by a personal visit by our ward councillor who was accompanied by the Leader of the council who gave us a personal apology.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barryw,if its not ddc problemthen whos is it,as far as i am aware the ddc colect council rent,council tax,run a planning department etc the list gos on,in short they are responcable for the running of the town and district.therefore keer the town updated,and give me the lipservice that its private money that builds the towns.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
For the pass ten years of more I have been talking at meetings and to councils parishs and town and the district themself,that the planning dept at the Dover And District is at its very best Rubbish and goes down hill from there,we can all see what they have done to Dover,with all the one bedroom flats and all the fencing around the town,also they have unbalance the town,we have now no midleclass,or upperclass,we have no higher,upper,middle ,just working and lower,most rich and educated are gone or going,and you can not have a good society without some of all.And this has come about by very bad planning,The disrtict council say they are blue,but that is in name only,if they were true blue,Dover would be alot better then what we have now. Again we see the old school network in place,and that is not good for the town or the District.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
The Cabinet do not have any influence on any planning applications, Chris.
It is true that a small percentage of the total applications actually come to the committee.
Roger
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
Working class and proud of it!
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Is every councillor required to have input on every planning application in his/her ward? Do officers routinely decline applications which councillors might consider beneficial? what are the criteria which dictate whether an application goes to committee? Is every officer decision effectively scrutinised by elected members? Are councillors' views automatically sought when there is an appeal? What weight is given to town/parish council views? What mechanism is there to ensure that applications which have merit are not refused on technicalities? Do officers work with applicants to help them couch their applications in terms which satisfy the bureaucratic requirements, or are applicants left to their own devices or forced to hire expensive professionals? Just a few questions......
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
a couple of points raised in the above point strike a chord.
surely it is the job of planning officers to make recomendations to elected councillors not make final decisions?
the point of planners working together with the applicants i raised many years ago, it seems to be time wasting and frustrating for the applicant if they are just refused without being told what is acceptable.
the other thing that bothers me is that town councils can pass an application and it can then be rejected at district level when clearly town representatives are much more on the ball in their own manor.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Peter, the answer to those questions is yes . . . no . . . and maybe!
As I understand it, and I'm sure some of our elected DDC members on here will correct me if wrong, the basis of the process is that officers are the first level of scrutiny and look at the applications on a technical and legal basis, and they can then be passed by them and rubber stamped by the planning committee if they are advised that there is no legal reason to reject and no objections have been recieved during the advertising process. Other applications will automatically go before the committee because of their nature or size.
A ward councillor can I think 'call in' an application to the committee if they think a decision by an officer is wrong, and a conscientious one will look at all the applications in their ward at least weekly - I do that as a lowly parish councillor and a lot can be learned about the process by going through the plans online in full, including how officers have dealt with them up to that stage. Things obviously can go wrong which is why there are checks and appeals in the system, but it's wrong to say as some do that the system or organisation is bad because you don't agree with some decisions.
Having said that, putting up a garage or installing double glazing is a totally different kettle of fish to something like DTIZ, and I've thought from the start that it should have been a non-starter for DDC to get involved in that. The job of councils should be to provide the infrastructure and environment for developers to want to flood into an area, not to get into buying land and getting involved with the development themselves.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
btw, meeting at Lydden pond, 7.30 this evening, parish council and local environment group discussing improvements to the pond, adjourning to The Bell afterwards. That's the way to do it.
All welcome.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
John I am also working Class and there is nothing with that,read what I SAID,"You need All class,s to make a good working Society"