howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2011
20:3487846i can remember commenting on here after receiving the annual council tax bill which showed how much dosh went to kent police and how much to the district council.
most people agreed that the district council seemed to do a lot more with their share than kent police did.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
5 January 2011
20:4287849Having read Keith's post about what the PCSO can do I would rather have one policeman with the power of arrest than ten PCSO's who seem to be glorified traffic and litter wardens. They can tell you off, ask for your name and address and then let you to go so are not really much use. For example they can stop a cyclist for being on the pavement and do what, absolutely nothing.
I know that the old fashioned bobby has gone forever I just wish they were still around. There was little or no vandalism because they knew who the troublemakers were. The vast majority of the public knew they were there to help and respected them, which does not seem to be the case now.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
5 January 2011
21:0487852Ideally, I'm sure we would all prefer more bobbies than PCSOs out in the community. However, what is not codified in Keith's powers list is the work that PCSOs do that doesn't directly involve law enforcement and prosecution. I believe they gather intelligence, meet with community groups and schools, instruct children and so on. Police (proper) are hard to find on the beat as it is, and it is arguably better that these minor tasks be handled by the police auxiliaries than tying up the police whose time may be better employed in crime prevention and investigation. There are far too few of them as it is.
I'm still not certain as to the difference in responsibilities PCSOs have with Community Support Wardens - is there an overlap?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
5 January 2011
23:5587862Then there are Civil Enforcement Officers and in Dover we have not only normal Plod but also Harbour Board Police, British Transport Police at the station, an anti-terrorist unit that we aren't supposed to know about and God knows what else. We need to know who is responsible for what. Don't we?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 January 2011
11:0087873looking at again at keith's post it seems that the p.c.s.o's have enough powers, the question is how often are they implemented?
like others here i do not know the connection between them and community support wardens.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 January 2011
18:1187917Now that you are back among us , Keith, perhaps you would be kind enough to answer the question put to you in post#35?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
6 January 2011
19:2787948peter have e mailed paulb
can see the thread getting personal which i thought might happen
better question would be
how many fixed penalty notices have there been issued by kent pcso's
i to believe there sure be far more
butr thats noit a reason to dio away with the job
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 January 2011
20:1487954Nothing personal at all Keith, just trying to get a feel for how the chaps on the ground see their job and their priorities. Without hard facts (and Watty has said that Kent Police do not provide him with the information he asks for) it's difficult. You have kindly told us what powers PCSOs possess, all I am asking is how they are used. Please don't paint me as being personally motivated, I m not. You and I do not know each other well but I think we are polite to each other when we do meet. You are however, the only PCSO I know, who else do I ask?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
6 January 2011
21:2787960peter
i have no idea how many fines have been dshed across across kent although 4 were issued in medway area recently
i think in this area the offences are not taken as seriously as they should be,
cant see why kent police dont give the info not very accounaable if that's the case.
im certain as i said that the fixed penalty notices figure will be very low
and its more about putting pressure on ken t police at superintendent and chief constable level to get these figures to a higher number.
this can be done via writing to them both
superintendent at fokestone police station
bouverie road west
folkestone
and chief constable
police head quarters
sutton road
maidstone
also if this is of a high priority i suggest you get to the polices regular public meetings/surgeries to make sure its pushed high up the police agenda
hope that helps
keith
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 January 2011
21:4487963keith
there is no point in going to meetings that are stage managed.
the police used the supermarket slogan "you asked and we responded" etc and made it clear that illegal cycling was a priority.
hard not to suppress a laugh really.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
6 January 2011
21:4987964m
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
6 January 2011
21:4987965im never a defeatist
i believe you should keep on knocking on doors till some one takes notice
using every opportunity possible to highlight the issues of concern
the alternative is the police can say, well no ones over interested and then they could drop it al together.
they are no different to any other body and dont like to be seen in aa bad light
and also no good moaning if thepressure isn't kept up
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 January 2011
21:5587968Having said all that, and I am no supporter of PC policing, I have to give Kent Police 11 out of 10 for the way they responded to our burglary at the house at Eythorne. More on the other thread anon.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 January 2011
22:1687971keith
the public pay for policing much as they do for every other service.
why should they have to chase them up over broken promises?
the other emergency services seem to do the business ok.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
6 January 2011
22:2087973Keith, you said "better question would be how many fixed penalty notices have there been issued by kent pcso's".
I would prefer the question to be, 'how many fixed penalty notices have there been issued by Dover's PCSOs', much more important than the whole of Kent.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
6 January 2011
22:4987976jan h
of course you can ask whitever you wish
mine was supposed to be helpful advice
never mind
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 January 2011
22:5787978Keith we all appreciate the advice but we would appreciate answers more, or at least a pointer as to where we can go for them.
Evidence suggests that Kent Police ignore FoI requests which are inconvenient for them.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
6 January 2011
23:0087979peter
i have answered the questions
,
notices probably a very low amout
across folkestone dover, and kent
now to move it forward iv also suggested ways to keep the pressure up to get results.
iv done my bit as much as i can
forumites can now sit back and do nowt and keep moaning
but achieve little
or they can put pressure on the police
use the local media as well if it helps
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 January 2011
23:1587980Here is an example of how using the press can put pressure on the police. Ten days before Christmas the Dover Express published the following letter:
Begin forwarded message:
From: Peter Garstin <peter@garstin.net>
Date: 26 November 2010 13:12:25 GMT
To: "newsdesk.doverexpress@krnmedia.co.uk" <newsdesk.doverexpress@krnmedia.co.uk>
Subject: Op Stack/Christmas.
Now that the Christmas season is about to begin, may I use your letters page to make a public appeal to Kent Police?
The Saturday before Christmas is the busiest shopping day in the year. Both in 2008 and 2009, on that day Dover was totally gridlocked as a result of the police's abject failure to anticipate or even respond to traffic and weather conditions. 2009 was particularly bad, with Operation Stack not implemented until eight hours after Dover had become inaccessible by road and, it seemed to me, only enacted after the queue from Dover reached the Channel Tunnel. Further complicating matters, no attempt was made to send queuing traffic back out of the town. As a result the town was jammed rock solid all day from shortly after 3am until well into the following night, costing all the town's businesses the vast majority of their takings for what should have been a bumper day. All over Dover there were hundreds of heavy lorries, whose drivers' hours had expired, blocking both main and side roads. A local councillor who has DDC responsibility for 'Access' (ha!) told me that the same truck was outside his house in a main thoroughfare for 18 hours.
This cannot be allowed to happen again. May we please have an official assurance that the officers responsible for Stack will not remain asleep at the wheel this year?
Peter Garstin,
Blakes of Dover.
01304 202194 / 07867982141.
Result: nothing.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
6 January 2011
23:2487981Keith, you did give helpful advice I just narrowed the question down so it was relevant to this area that is all.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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