Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
5 January 2011
08:0087790I appreciate that your comment about questioning whether the Folkestone Road is in the ward was tongue in cheek Howard, but the "enforcement officers" - the parking attendants, do come up the Folkestone Road - at least as far as where we live, I've seem them.
I have had comments about being selective on who they ticket and have followed that up.
I understood Police were obliged to move a car on if it is caussing actual obstruction, so if a car is doing more than just illegally parked, then they should move it on; I will seek clarification on this.
Giving PCSOs more powers is not the same as making them coppers on the cheap; if there are powers given to them, but they not being introduced, then that is wrong, otherwise what was the point of making powers if they can't use them ?
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2011
10:3987808roger
it is still unclear what powers our p.c.s.o.'s have locally, it all depends what the chief constable has decreed they can do.
i agree that it would be a good idea if they could deal with obstructions, preferably being able to phone someone to have the offending vehicle towed away.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
5 January 2011
15:3287813howard,seeing that you have double yellows up your way,is there by any chance any notices stuck on lamp posts etc with an enforcement notices.if not the double yellows are not worth the road they are printed on.
Guest 676- Registered: 1 Jul 2008
- Posts: 521
5 January 2011
15:5887814If the double yellow lines (or any single yellow lines) are within a Controlled Parking Zone (CPZ) there is no need for a sign.
Million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
5 January 2011
16:0487815Mr Dimmock is right on this one and they are walking around till 20.00hrs at night.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2011
16:2387816vic
not around my way, i have only ever seen them on a sunday morning.
the rest of the time they seem to be in extra revenue gathering areas.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 January 2011
17:2087817I list below powers of the Kent PCSO
This is not justifying or otherwise
just informing what they
i may well comment further depending on feedback.
but i hope that this posting will not result in
1; slagging off pcso's
2; attempts to misunderstand the role of the pcso which is crucial to communties
if you believe in there role
so here goes
pease sorry its long and wordy but its legal jargon used
POWER TO STOP AND SEARCH IN AUTHORISED AREAS UNBDER TERRORIRM ACT 2000 IN AUTHORISED AREAS TO STOP AND SEARCH VEHICLES/PEDESTRANS WHEN IN COMPANY OF AND UNDER SUPERVISION OF A CONSTABLE
POWER TO ENFORCE CORDONED AREA UNDER TERRORISM ACT 2000
POWER TO CARRY OUT ROAD CHECKS AUTHORISED BY SUPERINTENDENT OR ABOVE TO STOP VEHICLES FOR PURPOSES OF CARRYING ROADCHECK
POWER TO REQUIRE NAME AND ADDRESSES FOR ROAD TRAFFIC OFFENCES DESIGNATED BY SUPERINTENDENT OR ABOVE
POWER TO PLACE SIGNS
TO ASSIST WITH TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT AT PUBLIC EVENTS, ROAD TRAFFIC COLLISIONS, AND OTHER INCIDENTS
POWER TO SIEZE VEHICLES USED TO CAUSE ALARM IE; CARELESS AND INCONSIDERATE DRIVING
POWERE TO REQUIRE PERSON DRINKING ALCOHOL IN DESIGNATED AREAS TO SURRENDER ALCOHOL FOR PURPOSE OF DISPOSING OF ALCOHOL
POWER TO REQUIRE PERSOS AGED UNDER 18 TO SURRENDER ALCOHOL OR A SUPPLIER TO AN UNDER 18 PERSON TO DISPOSE OF THE ACOHOL SAND OBTSAIN THE NAMES/ADDRESSES
POWER TO SIEZE TOBACCO FROM PERSONS UNDER THE AGE OF 16AND DISPOSE OF
POWER TO SIEZE DRUGS AND REQUIRE NAME/ADDRESSES FOR POSSESION OF DRUGSBUT NOT POWER TO SEARCH
POWER TO REQUIRE NAME/ADDRESS OF ANYONE FELT TO BE CAUSING ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR CAN DETAIN PERSON IF FAIL TO COMPLY
POWER TO REQUIR NAME ADDRESS PERSON FAILNG TO DISPERSE WHEN ASKED TO DO SO OR AN OFFENCE THAT CAUSES INJURY ALARM OR DISTRESS TO ANOTHER PERSON OR LOSS OR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY
POWER TO PHOGRAPH PERSONS AWAY FROM POLICE STN WHO HAVE BEEN DETAINED , ARRESTED, OR GIVEN FIXED PENALTY NOTICE
POWER TI ISSUE FIXED PENALTY NOTICES FOR LITTERING UNDER SECTION 88 OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT 1990
POWER OF ISSUE FIXED PENALTY NOTICEIN RESPECT OF OFFENCES UNDER DOG CONTROL ORDERS SECTION 59 OF THE CLEAN NEIGHBOROURHOOD AND ENVIROMENTAL ACT 2005
WHICH INCLUDES FIXED PENALTY NOTICES AND KEEPING OF DOGS ON LEADS
POWER TO REMOVE ABANDONED VEHICLES
UNDER SECT 99 OF ROAD TRAFFIC REGS
POWER TO ISSUE FIXED PENALTY NOTICES FOR CYCLING ON PAVEMENTS SECTION 54 OF ROAD TRAFFIC OFFENDERS AC 1988
POWER TO STOP CYCLISTS UNDER SECTION 163 (2) ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1988
WHEN PCSO BELIEVES PERSONS COMMITTED OFFENCES OF RIDING ON THE FOOTPATH
POWER TO CONTROL TRAFFIC FOR PURPOSES OTHER THAN ASCORTING AN EXCEPTIONAL LOAD
IE TO ASSIST WITH TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT AT PUBLIC EVENTS, ROAD TRAFFIC COLLISIONS, AND OTHER INCIDENTS WHERE TRAFFIC DIVERSIONS ARE NECESSARY
SO THERE YOU HAVE IT
SURPRIZED AF DDC IS WORKING IN PARTNERSHIP WITH POLICE THAT PAULW ISNT AWARE OF ALL OF THIS
OR IS HE PLAYING POLITICAL GAMES?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 687- Registered: 2 Jun 2009
- Posts: 513
5 January 2011
17:5787819Keith, the above is the best posting you have in my opinion ever made, but you go and totally spoil it by accusing another poster of possibly playing political games,how very sad.
As for the original thread of this post, unpaid fines by motorists don't occur in many European countries because transgressors are given the choice,pay up on the spot or we confiscate your vehicle until you do. I have known of UK drivers being driven to a cashpoint to draw out money to pay their fines,something I seem to remember Blair saying would happen in the UK but not sure it ever came to pass.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 January 2011
18:0787820Ken
not over concerned with your view
as for the final bit, do take it as a surprize that the leader of DDC with the unit of police/council officers in his council building was unaware of the powers.
but anyway that don't matter
i'v again provided the details asked
un like other posters who have been asked questions over next May but declined
to give answers
i have no secrets and say it as it is
some will like it that way
others wont
but i do try to be even handed in my approach even though i disagree with a number of posters
and of course the conservatives will get debate
but i will not speak for the labour party, for one im not a member
but also its for them to reply if they so wish
but you will get is my view
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2011
18:4087822an excellent and informative post keith, pity about the last bit.
i think we have to all read and digest it all before giving a strong opinion, on the face of it they have all the powers that i would be happy for them to have.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
5 January 2011
18:4587826Interesting post there Keith. I presume your beat was Cheriton when you were a PCSO as I once came across you in uniform taking notes in the Gurkha shop there. Cheriton High St is one area where almost all the cyclists use the pavement. How many fixed penalty notices did you issue for that offence during your service as a PCSO?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 January 2011
18:5287829Howard
purely on the last part, i'v attempted to be even handed with mr watkins approach on my postings in general, but more so this particular subject
where, not for the first time he has attempted to silence me, as iv said it won't happen, but you need to be even handed in responses, if you were facing the same problems i'm sure you wouldn't just sit back and take it
anyway, i don't want to move away from the main theme of my post
I will wait to see what comes back from posters to see if i will comment further,
i have for some time howard been saying howard the role of the PCSO is important and not given to many more powers thus taking them away from the job they were set up to do.
one final point before people post;
BERN;
You mention pcso's should go and be replaced by police persons, there are a number of problems with this outlook.
1; many police join the police force rightly to be police officers, and not deal with the
community low level crime presently the role carried out by pcso's.
so to get police to do the job, they wouldn't have there heart in it, woudnt enjoy it, and many lack the skills required to do the job of the pcso as its not what they appied to do.
2; the police force could not afford to have a policeman/woman in every ward
the cost would be so high
3'communities feel safer with pcso's
i will stop there
for now lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
5 January 2011
19:1687833Looking more closely at the list, it would seem that while a PCSO can issue fixed penalty notices for most of the low level offences which citizens care quite s lot about, if they come across a violent rape or bank robbery in progress, their powers are limited to taking the suspects' names and addresses!
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 January 2011
19:2187834As i said peter it's about understanding the role of the pcso which is NOT to be a police person.
(with £53million to save) could not afford to put a bobby on the beat in every ward in kent.
nor would it work as well as having a pcso in the coimmunity
but again as i say its understanding the role.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
5 January 2011
19:2987835So how many Fixed penalties did you issue Keith? Just trying to get a feel of the balance between community relations and enforcement. After all a law enforcement officer who doesn't enforce is as much use as an ashtray on a motorcycle.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2011
19:4587838that "ashtray on a motor bike" quip cracked me up.
i have noted it down and will slip it casually into conversation at posh barry's next candlelight supper.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
5 January 2011
19:5587840Interesting article here showing -
It costs £300,000 for every crime detected (note just detected, not solved) by a PCSO
The money spent on PCSOs could fund 7,200 full-time police officers
The chairman of the Police Federation says 'They cannot perform the job of a real policeman. That money should be going into front-line policing.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1342198/Cost-crime-solved-Blunketts-police-community-support-officers-300-000.htmlhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 January 2011
20:0687841i saw that report from the coppers union when it came out.
two points here:
a) would the 7200 extra officers ever leave the police station to carry out "front line policing"?
b) how many offences were stopped by the presence of the p.c.s.o's?
Unregistered User
5 January 2011
20:2687844Peter, there appears a silence from all avenues at Kent Police regarding PCSO's issuing of fixed penalty notices etc. and use /extension of powers.
The questions I asked were directed at Kent police top management for response on behalf of all Kent Local Authority Leaders. We are still waiting 18months later.
Watty
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
5 January 2011
20:2887845More evidence of police arrogance and unaccountability.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson