Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
It's pre-Norman Old English. You can see the Scandinavian influences in it. Here's a later version Geoffrey Chaucer might have used:
Oure fadir þat art in heuenes halwid be þi name;
þi reume or kyngdom come to be.
Be þi wille don in herþe as it is doun in heuene.
yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred.
And foryeue to us oure dettis þat is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris þat is to men þat han synned in us.
And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.
The þ character is a "th" sound.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
interesting take on the "lords prayer", the piece from mark looked like there was some icelandic in it.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
It would be interesting to hear a conversation in Olde English, it looks and sounds pre-Elizabethean with a Scandinavian twist.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
It was to illustrate how the English language has changed over time. The present construct of grammar and spelling is relatively recent, dating from the printing press which literally 'set' the rules.
Part of me loves the model we have today but part of me feels as King Canute (Cnut?) must have done as he tried to resist the irresistible.
I remember being told that Americanisms were a debasement when in fact many of them are either the English of the time of immigration or are descendant from it.
If communication is lost then damage has been caused but what we probably are witnessing is communication in differing, and evolving, forms.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,931
well said reg
jan don't worry about your spelling the most important thing is that you post
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 677- Registered: 8 Jul 2008
- Posts: 150
I took my english language GCSE in 1987, I was educated in a state school (there was no grammer school system in the Midlands at the time) and I passed both that exam and my english literature exam which included an essay on Chaucer's a Pardoner's tale in the original middle english (what the point of that was I still don't know but I did think it was fun and a very lyrical way of reading the poem). My english language lessons included grammer and spelling lessons and they were marked on our essays and exams. Our exam also included an oral presentation where you were expected to speak articulately on your favourite book. Due to that and through my extensive reading I feel that whilst my spelling and grammer is by no means perfect it is probably above average.
What on earth was the point of stating all that I hear you ask, well firstly I wanted to reassure some members that it wasn't just schooling in the 70's that dealt with grammer and spelling, they were teaching it well into the 80's and 90's too
but mostly I just wanted to give a little background as a foundation for the attitude that I'm about to expound.
My personal belief is that when infomration is written down, as with this forum it is quite important to ensure that the way someone reads your post is the same way you hear it in you head when you are writing it. The best way to do that is to do your very best to make sure that your puctuation and grammer is as accurate as possible, there is no tone of voice or body language in written forums so you have to do your very best to make sure that the writing itself is as clear as possible. Of course all posts are valuable it's just there's less chance of misunderstanding if they are written using the correct spelling, punctuation and grammer.
It's not the man in my life, its the life in my man!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
plenty of misunderstandings in this medium, mainly as mentioned because we are not face to face.
worse with me as i do not use emoticons, thankfully we are a local forum so we cross paths at events and sometimes in town and get to know each others style of humour.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Well put Steph, you put things so much better than I do!
Sarah I meant no disrespect to people with dyslexia or any other condition that makes it hard for them to use our language "correctly" and I apologise if I've offended anyone in that way. I work with "disabled" children with autism, downs and learning difficulties so I would never insult or disrespect them.
Now Keith, you have deliberately twisted what I said haven't you? I was not telling other people to do anything, I said that I was speaking for myself and hoped I hadn't offended anyone. I respect everyones right to post whatever they want to and would never try to influence anyone. Surely I'm entitled to a view as well? Stop your mischief making you naughty boy!
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
kieth,you are a naughty boy you.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,931
Good evening peeps, for me it's one of lets get as many people posting as we can, no matter what background.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Hi Jacqui and thank you for your post , I really appreciate your reply , this post is genuinally not directed at you , but like you I feel the need to add context to my previous comments .
Its opinions / statements / views about the "lazyness " etc of poor spelling that can make people who dont spell feel diminished , as if they/I are not worthy contributors to a discussion , The content or complexity of their expressed opinion is not as worthy as that of others . All because they/ me dont/cant understand the secret modern code of English spelling and grammar .
I really need to reiterate that this is most definately not directed at you Jacqui on a personal level
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
the "th" letter I think is called the thor, and along with the "per" symbol used on old documents, ie. 16th century and earlier.
---------------------------------------------------
Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
In my first post I was not disparaging ordinary people who struggle with the finer points of language, as some of you seem to think. I was criticising the senior media people who choose presenters and journalists who do not have adequate language skills.
Tom your analogy about making your own shoes is nearly there - there is a shoe shop down the road, and there is a newsagent across the street; but in both cases I expect a professionally crafted product, not something I could knock up in my kitchen. Likewise I don't expect the same quality of prose from forum members as I would from Jonathan Dimbleby.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
no wot u meen pete no xkuse 4 bad vocabbulare
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,931
howard
r u takin der pizz lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
My point is that when people are in the words business and making big money out of it their output should be of high quality, not the routine lazy junk we hear and read from many TV and print journalists.
And you can take the pizz as much as you like, it's water off a duck's back for a pedant like me.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I left school in 1963 without any "O" levels and started work straight away.
It wasn't that I was unintelligent, but I didn't like school, but enjoyed learning, so went to a local "college of further education" as it was called then.
I took English (language) Maths, History, Accounts and Commerce. I am not conversant with Shakespeare or other classic literary writers, so always get those kind of related questions wrong on the Quiz Nights at Blakes (Tuesday evenings).
It's not snobbery wanting to write with decent punctuation and spelling etc, it's just that if you know something is right, you're going to write correctly, if you don't know how to spell, put as near as looks right.
The main problem is where bad/wrong punctuation can change the meaning of a sentence.
Sometimes words or punctation come out wrong because it hasn't been proof-read - I always try to proof-read my postings before hitting enter, but sometimes I miss errors.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
got an a* in gobablede gook,will that do.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
It`s not snobbery wanting to write with decent punctuation and spelling.........it is obnoxious to highlight someone
elses errors..........................just ride with it and enjoy the contribution.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
at the end of the day if we know what people mean that's all that matters.
agree with peter about people on the t.v. or radio being lazy with their english, they are paid to communicate clearly.