Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Philip.
I would like to understand what your basic views on climate change are?
Sifting through your sarcastic remarks, only give me a blurred hypothesis.
Are you saying there is no such thing as climate change?
Or are you saying there is climate change but is not manmade?
And the answer to your question in post #6 is yes, animals do have rights.
Many are far more intelligent and have much more right and meaning, to be on this earth, than many human beings have.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Yes, animals have rights. But equally important is the responsibility of humans to honour those rights. But how far do those rights and obligations go? Does a cockroach have the same rights as a koala? Does a mosquito have the same rights as a meerkat?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Hi Gary. To answer your question - No I don't believe in Man-made climate change. There is no proof whatsoever for the assertion that Man is changing the climate. In my mind to believe in the Man made aspect of climate change is the same as believing in creationism. There is no science behind the assertions put forward by those who are considered experts in and out of the field.
I believe in climate change because there is empirical evidence that the climate has changed over billions of years.
Regarding animals having rights - I've always believed that the idea of rights belong solely to Humans. Rights do not extend to animals. Animal rights is one of those emotive ideas which merely serve as a political catchphrase invented by those who take caring for animals to it's extreme.
As Peter talks about a cockroach and a Koala who decides which rights each individual species gets? What criteria is employed to guage such rights? Will there be an international panel to decide these rights?
It's strange but I've actually discussed this idea with people over lunch with guests who believe in the idea of animal rights eating chicken sandwiches. How bizarre is that?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Agreed, Philip, while climate change is undeniable, there's no proof that it's man-made and never will be, only evidence one way or the other, which each side cites as proof. But you can only provide conclusive proof through a controlled experiment, which is impossible.
Looking at the evidence and particularly the fact that governments and the PC brigade have jumped on the bandwagon, a swift application of Occam's Razor leads to the conclusion that it probably isn't man-made, apart from a tiny and statistically insignificant contribution.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Fully agree with that Peter. The thing is that the alarmists make up their ideas and predictions on the hoof and when the climate doesn't appear to concur with their computer models they conveniently fail to report this or worse they explain this by blaming Man-made climate change.
As an example you might remember this from 2001:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html
Well I don't know about you but for the past few winters it's snowed extremely heavily over the UK.
Next they blame global warming for the flooding We saw over the past few years Unfortunately our life span is limited to a relatively small amount of years so most people will not remember these examples affecting just one river over the centuries:
http://www.severntales.co.uk/severn-floods-3.html
It goes on and on and on. The same old same old and every time environmentalists insist they have proof of their belief (hurricane Sandy, the Australian floods, the Australian bushfires, cold weather, warm weather, Kilimanjaro peaks melting, blah, blah blah) their assertions are soundly rebuffed by sensible people.
However such is their deep seated belief that even when faced with the truth they lash out and hate you and try to ridicule. Check out any comments section to these stories in the Guardian environmental section. It's bedlam.
As an aside why is it that the i BBC Daily politics South east programme always includes a story featuring arch eco-warrior Caroline Lucas whose party holds on one seat in Parliament.
Bizarre isn't it?
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Well Well.
I very nearly agree with both of you.
As far as climate change, I am certain it is happening and concerned about it and believe man should be doing what he can(if he can) to slow it down or prevent it. Not just for us humans but for animals as well.
I am not a tree hugger but I don't believe cutting down the Amazon forest for me to eat a nice piece of steak from (if I could afford meat)
is helping, maybe not causing, to ease climate change.
Peter, I don't like cockroaches but I don't think they deserve to have my size 10 footprint put on his head and end his merry life.
In between each and every extremity is a middle ground, my friend.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Need drink. Can't. Can't quite concentrate. Must try to pick up self from floor. Where are my meds?
Doctor. No if I can just raise my voice a little to alert.........next..........door.
Hellll..........Hellllp..........Help. I've fallen on the........floor. Help.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
I see in the Dover rag ,that Dover councils wind turbine has broken-down
It only cost £90'000 but it's saved them £24'000 in electricity barging!
They've got some youth opportunity kids in to fix it apparently
The company that supplied it has du a runner ,classic
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
ahh that little nugget,rumor is that they have run out of hamsters and cockcroaches,but now having to rely on wind power.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Gary, for man to try to influence the climate of our planet, or to assert that he might already have done so, is a huge impertinence. The last chap to try to command the environment ( a king imposed on us by the Danes) made himself look a right Knut. We need to go with the flow and adapt.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
wheather fact.fine and dry over cast but cold.
tomorrow,cold and wet with a hint of snow.
man made of course,the russians are to blame this time.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter.
I am not saying that decimating the Amazon Forest is influencing climate change but I am saying it is wrong and I am against it. You cannot adapt to taking away a forest.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I agree Gary. It's wrong to cut forests down but global warming is not a principal reason.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
I agree Peter.
Greed is though.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
We are passengers on this planet. We are not in charge. All we can do is try to deal with what fate throws at us. We as a species need to drop this arrogant belief that we can influence the climate, come to terms with our impotence and prepare to adapt.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter.
I agree we are not in charge but do you really think that ridding our oceans of fish and chopping our forests down isn't an arrogant act in itself.
Who is the impotent one, to believe this is the way we should adapt?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I agree Gary, but this thread is about anthropogenic climate change, not environmental vandalism.
When I was a small boy (1960-ish) you would daily see cod landed at Whitstable weighing 40lbs. Now a 15-pounder is quite rare and most are 5lb juveniles.
Sending all our waste to landfill is an equally arrogant act because one day we shall run out of places to put it.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
Reopen our coalmines and operate them with optimum safety and efficiency. Emission control technology exists to make a coal fired power stations as clean as nuclear examples- just in case you think that we can influence climate which of course as PG describes is arrogant and inaccurate..
Never give up...
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Of course BarryW's mate Husky Dave has yet again proved what a complete twerp he and his government is:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/mps-say-wind-farm-contracts-are-shocking-8449897.html
Not that We didn't know that wind power is useless anyway but for the Independent to once again run a story which doesn't quite side with the received green wisdom perhaps even the liberal tendency is starting to realise the enormous cost of this scam in terms of money and lives.