Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
...according to reports Boris was red-faced with anger when in a lift with Red Ken over claims made by Livingstone in a hustings regarding claims made by Livingstone about Boris' tax status.
He said this three times to Livingstone in front of witnesses.
The Livingstone camp have confirmed the incident but nothing has yet been said by the Johnson campaign.
What fun and games.... Good for Boris for tackling the obnoxious hypocrite Livingstone over that.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
One too many 'claims' in there for my liking.
I have a friend whose claim to fame is that he was once called a **** by red Ken...what joy indeed.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
In case people want to know exactly what lies this is all about ConHome has published a list. I know some of you do not like links so here is a cut and paste jobby... I have chopped out a few sections where it goes on far too long....
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Listing Livingstone's lies from the LBC debate
It so happened Boris was referring to Livingstone's claim that Boris had set up a company to avoid tax.
There are others though:
Lie 1: Ken Livingstone said he wouldn't introduce a £25 congestion charge.
Reality: Last year he said he would introduce a £25 congestion charge. 'Oh yes the £25 charge for gas guzzlers we'll be straight back for that because we now know that at least 4000 people die a year prematurely because of our poor air quality'.
Lie 2: Ken Livingstone said he wouldn't extend the Western Extension Zone.
Reality: He promised the Labour Party he would. 'I will reintroduce the Western Extension of the congestion charge'.
Lie 3: Ken Livingstone said he would restore EMA.
Reality: Independent sources say he doesn't have the money. Channel 4's Factcheck have independently costed this proposal at £55 million a year. Ken Livingstone says he would get colleges, universities and local authorities to pay for this pledge but, as Channel 4's Factcheck found, he has no power to force them to fund it and many have already flatly refused to pay for it. £55 million a year is £220 million over a four-year term.
Lie 4: Ken Livingstone claimed current police numbers were only at 31,128
Reality: Official Met data shows there will be more than 32,000 by April. According to the Met, there are 209 new officers coming on board in April.
Lie 5: Ken Livingstone said his fares policy would cost £269m over four years.
Reality: His own campaign document says it would cost £269m in the first year alone. 'Ken's Fare Deal costs £269mn in the first year'
Lie 6: Ken Livingstone said the days lost to strikes under his mayoralty decreased by 98%; "In the 8 years that I was mayor the number of days, shifts lost by strikes was cut by 98%"
Reality: There was no reduction in days of strikes. There were 2 days of strikes in 2001. There were 2 days of strikes in 2008. There was no reduction in the number of days of strikes.
Lie 7: Ken Livingstone claimed he paid income tax on everything he gets.
Reality: Ken Livingstone is a tax avoider. Ken Livingstone has vehemently attacked tax avoidance. He wrote in the Sun in 2009 about tax avoiders: 'these rich bastards just don't get it'
But while Mayor from 2000 - 2006, his income was paid into a shady private company:
- Ken Livingstone owned a private business for most of his mayoralty. Ken Livingstone set up LocalAction Ltd in 1986, and did not dissolve it until 17 October 2006. It was open for six of the eight years he was mayor.
- Almost £221,000 was paid to Localaction in 21 months. He was paid £220,992 for speaking and other engagements between July 1998-February 2000, which was paid into his company Localaction.
- He failed to declare this properly while an MP. John Jones MP lodged a formal complaint with the Standards and Privileges committee, which was upheld.
- By paying himself through a company, he paid less tax. By paying money into a company, it came under corporation tax, 20 per cent in 2000, not the higher rate income tax, 40 per cent in 2000
- In 2008, he set up a new company before he left office. Silveta Ltd was incorporated on 23 April 2008.
- Earnings of £320,000 have been paid into Silveta Ltd with almost nothing withdrawn. In 2009 and 2010 (only available years) he has drawn out barely any money from the company. By June 2010, the company had earned £320,000.
Lie 8: Ken Livingstone claimed that in his last year as Mayor 43% of housing built was affordable.
Reality: In his last year the proportion of affordable housing was just 33%. In the last report monitoring affordable housing builds before Ken Livingstone left office the proportion of completions which were affordable had fallen to 33 per cent.
Lie 9: Ken Livingstone claimed there would be no increase in the congestion charge.
Reality: Ken Livingstone broke his promise before on this and will again. Ken Livingstone in 2003 promised that the Congestion Charge would not be increased for ten years. However, just two years later in 2005 he increased it by 60 per cent, from £5 to £8 in 2005.
Lie 10: Ken Livingstone claimed his expenses as mayor were 'miniscule.'
Reality: Ken Livingstone claimed £66,000 on the City Hall credit card. This included £256 for a pair of shoes, more than £6,000 on alcohol, £6,404 on 1st class flights to Florida and £466 for dinner with a Cuban translator
Lie 11: Ken Livingstone claimed he only had four lunches a year as mayor.
Reality: Ken Livingstone's corporate credit card receipts show that he had 47 lunches or dinners in his last four years as Mayor - almost an average of one a month.
Lie 12: Ken Livingstone claimed TfL had a £830 million surplus.
Reality: Ken Livingstone keeps changing the amount of the 'surplus' he says will fund his fare cut. First he said the money could be funded from a £729 million surplus. Then he said it could be funded by a surplus of £206 million Then he said it would be funded with a surplus of £338 million. Then he said the surplus is £727 million. Now on LBC on 3 April he said the surplus was £830 million
Independent factcheckers confirm Ken Livingstone's plan will take more than £1 billion out of the transport budget. Channel 4 Factcheck states: 'TfL argues that if Mr Livingstone was to cut fares by 7 per cent, the move would reduce the income from fares by £1.12bn over this parliament'.
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No wonder Boris reacted like that...
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
We are here at the other end of Kent. We all know that national politicians are inclined towards economy with the truth. None of this is new: apart from being an entertaining spectacle, WTF does it have to do with us?
And another thing: since when did politicians make themselves look good by slamming the opposition? It's just a race to the bottom in moral and ethical terms.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Cripes!! I'm not altogether happy with the headline BarryW. I'm hoping this thread doesn't run and run...even though asterisked out..members and readers cant escape from that headline.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Farting? Faffing? Fawning? Fibbing? Could be anything.
I'd go for fibbing.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Not having your excuse Peter...
Lie 4-Nothing incompatible there.
Lie 7-If he takes a wage he WILL pay the same tax. Why "shady" for him?
Lie 9-Not a lie answered with conjecture.
Lie 10-Expences and 'corporate' credit card are not the same thing.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
boris is hardly coming across as future prime minister using language like that.
must have picked it up at that public school he went to.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
In my banking career I must have charged tens of thousands of personal stuff to my corporate card- and reimbursed the company before they had to pay it out.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Well PaulB - that headline was used on the Speccie website and other respectable news sources!! So you are in good company...
Yes we do not expect absolute truth from politicians, sadly. But quite clearly Livingstone is taking lies to new depths of hypocrisy.
Yes - Peter, for us it is just an entertaining spectacle, hence my post.
Let us also note, Peter and Howard - that this was an outburst in a lift not one made in an interview, in a speech or even near an 'open mike'. If it had been then I would agree Howard, it would not come across as a future PM. But Boris' people have not even commented on this so they did not publicise the spat but someone else from the BBC did who overheard it in the lift. Politicians are perfectly human, even PMs and potential PMs and if anyone does not expect them to swear in such circumstances, I suspect that you are expecting too much.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i still think boris was a bit silly with his outburst in a public building, it would always come out.
he is red hot favourite to be re-elected mayor so it is wise to say as little as possible in the run up.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
We are all human. I know I would give Livingstone the same treatment under those circumstances and I am sure most people would. You cannot get away from the fact it was in a lift with a limited number of observers, all BBC insiders or staffers, not public.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
seeing that i dont like eiether of them,and lucky that i dont have a vote in that election.so sadly i have no more to say on the matter.
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
I take it a hoodie in a public building using the same language would not get the same fawning adulation that Boris has on here!
Audere est facere.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
a touch unfair martin, boris comes from a good family and went to the best school so it would have sounded much nicer coming from him rather than some oik that went to a comprehensive.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,pot,kettle,black.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I don't like swear words!
I would like the oppertunity to say exactly that to the beloved Ken
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
red ken was such a breath of fresh air back in the eighties taking on the government and trying to do the right thing by londoners when he was at the g.l.c then after a spell in the commons becoming the first mayor of london.
was always in tune with an electorate that was mainly blue voting but his personality and verve overrode political considerations, now he just seems to be a parody of his former self.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
looks like i have misread the situation and boris lost his cool because he is not ahead in the polls as i thought, this from the independent website.
London's Mayor is one of the sharpest performers in the politics, who has got the better of hard nosed interviewers like Jeremy Paxman and kept cool while being taunted by the professional comics on Have I Got News For You. Today's outburst prompted the question whether he feels the London mayoralty slipping away to his older opponent - because defeat in May would be a shattering setback for one of the most ambitious men in modern politics.
He was possibly provoked by the Twitter poll that LBC was running while the four candidates were on air. Half way through, it was showing Johnson and Livingstone in front on 25 per cent each, but at the end of the hour, Livingstone and Paddick were level on 24 per cent while Johnson was trailing on 16. The poll is unscientific and self-selecting, but it allowed Livingstone's people to claim that Johnson had lost his rag because he had lost the debate.
Also, it should be said in Johnson's defence that very few politicians who can match Livingstone's special talent for driving others to fury, partly through the manner in which he makes outrageous accusations in that nasal London twang.