Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
From the Lady who was not for `U`turning to the man who cannot stop `U`turning.
Cameron is going from one calamity to another..........propaganda honeymoon is showing the `signs`
MP`S from `all`parties have condemned the `Big Brother plan`....the blame game starts up again and the target this
time is Theresa May for mishandling the issue.
Cameron once again,late in the day,tells his backbenchers.....``I am opposed to the snoopers charter``...the word
being used in the commons again is inept.......
This `suck it and see`approach Coalition has a credibility problem.........
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
This is going down the same road as the non-existent petrol crisis it seems to me. MPs who don't understand (or don't want to understand) the proposal getting on their soap boxes to make a name for themselves.
HMG has been able to remotely monitor personal communications for decades. All this new legislation will do is add some computer-based communications to the mix.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Yes Phil that's certainly the case - our departmental IT expert left to join MI5 to do just this when they were having a big publically advertised recruitment drive 4 years ago, nothing new at all.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I have not gone through what is proposed, if there is anything yet to look through, but presumably there is something 'new' being proposed.
As things stand is not such data held for months or years? Are there not now intelligent word or phrase capture protocols?
This, though, as with the whole ID card proposals, gives me an uneasy feeling and not just because what could be 'chosen', to elicit a prosecution or lead directly to indefinite house arrest, leaves a whole lot that is not chosen and that the defence would not have access to.
All of which could turn;
"Where were you on the night of...?"
into...
"When you were at ***** and you ate *** and when you texted **** to **** that was code to arrange a meeting at ****, because we know you were both at **** on **** at **** time when the Crown Jewels went missing. Are you telling us all of this is mere coincidence?"
But also this turns us all into mere cyphers. A simple step to take from the Ruler and Subject notion of society in Britain, but a step too far for any Citizen to countenance.
The same people and the same system will still be in place should any such like proposal go through that were in place and missed sundry terrorists and organised criminality as before.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"* As the poet wrote a thousand years ago.
[*Who watches the watchmen?]
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Snoopers Charter is excessive government involvement/intervention....not even in the Coalition agreement..........
.......Quis custodiet ipos custodes.................Dover forumites..................
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
Live with it! We're the most watched nation on earth as it is. I hate to think how many CCTV cameras watch my daily travels - and that's just on the motorways! Looking at the Traffic England web site it shows 29 separate cameras between Folkestone and the M26 alone and I pass every single one of them twice a day during the week. That doesn't include the ANPR and speed cameras either. The M25 must be the most watched motorway in the country - and I'm not about to count all those cameras. In part I actually rely on these cameras to warn me of possible delays (yesterday's closure of the M26 for example - I knew it had re-opened before I left home despite radio reports to the contrary).
Our mail is tracked too. The automated letter sorting machines read the destination address and I'm pretty sure that the data accumulated from that simple process is watched by a computer somewhere. Parcels and packets are scanned and x-rayed - especially if they're heading for an airport. You'd be amazed at some of the things I've transported over the years that have been rejected as "prohibited items" - yesterday it was a gun apparently!!
When it comes to communications we have to accept that electronic web-based communications will be monitored. At a human level this is going to be impossible (how many emails can you read a day?) and even the fastest super-computers would be swamped. HMG would have to rely on the ISPs recording and storing all this data and even they don't have the capacity to keep everything beyond a month or so. And what about if your ISP isn't located in the UK? The best the intelligence services can hope for is to be able to pick out certain keywords and phrases in plain text from emails and other text-based methods (such as this forum) and chat rooms etc. Encryption technology is publicly available and, though not impossible to crack, takes time and resources. At one time the mere fact that a communication was encrypted would have been enough to provoke interest but today it's so common that probably 90% of data in encrypted in one form or another.
The scale of data sources is mind-blowing. Let's say, for arguments sake, that the population of the UK is 62 million souls. How many of them have, and use, PCs, mobile phones, lap-tops, tablet PCs and a plethora of other networked communication devices? I heard somewhere on the news yesterday that we send/receive something like 70 million emails A DAY in this country - and that doesn't include things like text messages from 'phones or messenger services.
The bottom line, as far as I'm concerned at any rate, is that we having nothing to worry about unless we're planning a bombing campaign or aiming for world domination (and not on an XBox 360 either).
Do I feel any safer as a result? Probably not!
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
"aiming for world domination"
This is another point of concern. Do we not become the subjects of any who have this data? Could this mean the end of armed conflict? China has the cash to purchase all this. Mandarin may not only be for Christmas.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
"The bottom line, as far as I'm concerned at any rate, is that we having nothing to worry about unless we're planning a bombing campaign or aiming for world domination "
I can't even Google the work 'rifle' at work (so I found out yesterday) so the world is safe from me !!
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
So if there is nothing to worry about why did David Cameron and Nick Clegg create such a fuss about the issue before the last election? Why did they put up such a large opposition to these measures that they were dropped like a stone?
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Courtesy Guardian.......
Privacy from state snooping is the defining quality of any true democracy..........
If the Bill in the Queens speech next month is made `law` Britain will overnight became a substantially less free country
Our status as one of the beacons of freedom seriously diminished..........................
This is among the most serious threats to freedom proposed anywhere in the democratic world.
.............North Korea would be proud to install such total surveillance......................
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
even barryw has concerns on this one so something must be wrong
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
at present in criminal trials mobile phone records are used to pinpoint where people were at the time of the incident, a good thing as it can exonerate the innocent as well as prove the guilty bang to rights.
cctv is accepted as we know it is rarely monitored, speed cameras are a source of income for the state so they are much more likely to be monitored.
i rather like things as they are i don't see a reasson to bring in any new laws.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
can these be trusted with the info
and not abuse there position?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
*50
Reg makes some points here.
My view is, that the queen and the North Korean leadership are equals.
In both Britain and North Korea, there is massive state promotion of unelected family leadership, from one generation to the next. They are promoted through the media, made heads and patrons of everything from State to government to Armed Forces to charity.
The queen will no doubt announce our emails will be read, that we will be all monitored.
Well, a bit late for me to convert, I've made myself abundantly known as a follower of the Empress Britannia.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
good point from keith in 53 the data protection act will mean nothing now and we don't know who will be watching the watchers.
alex
you are being very unfair on her majesty, if she never came in our direction the seafront shelters, conveniences and railings would never get a coat of paint.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
North Korea does not have these problems because the internet does not exist there.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
The three Kim Jongs, I, II and III, form the present dynasty in N. Korea.
So King Jong is coming, let's paint the grass green
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
no no alex,it has to be red, white and blue.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well quite an interesting subject lots differing views
but if barryw and i agree surely theres summat in that lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Undoubtedly we are being watched very closely but that doesn't make it right or negate our concern or protests now. For many, the fact that emails, texts phone calls etc can be hacked is news (see Leveson) and we are seeing an awakening to the potential of these technologies to reduce our liberties.
