Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
ww3 starts august 2014.after a deep recesion.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
barryw;
you have many times highlighted how you want to push 4 million people on the dole.
or as you say much needed cuts, faster the better.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 100...``I am right``......to think you are right all the time is that healthy ?....or even possible ?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith #102 - you lie. Hard word but a fact and a lie you repeat time and time again.
Reg - so where are your realistic alternatives? You do not have them. At least I do point out where Osborne is going wrong and say what should be done instead, you just snipe. The easiest thing in the world to do.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Lie is not the correct word barryw
the ultimate finish to the hard cutbacks you propose is likely to see more than 4 million on the dole.
a price worth paying you might say.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith you lie.
You keep repeating that lie.
I have never said I want 4 million on the dole. If you can point out where I have said that then I will apologise. I know I have not done so, that makes you a liar. I am not putting up with your repeated lies any more.
I want deeper and quicker cuts to public spending because that is how to repair damage to the domestic economy and to create the conditions for less unemployment.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Had this one over from Reg. This Week magazine cover...
**************************************
Caption...
``No way scroungers, we are right wingers,you lot are all in it on your own all together....get on with it``
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
CAMERON thinks hes on a winner here
but to please his back bench mp's hes pushing more to the brink
just looking again at the german health system they take 14% of wages
if your working something the germans not happy with
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
Many alternatives have been given to you but you choose to ignore them.
I am beginning to feel there is something deeper to your refusal to read posts and understand other points of view and indeed facts that are presented to you.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - that is what I feel about you.
I have not seen any realistic alternatives at all. There have been the odd piece-meal idea, often half baked, that does not add up to much at all.
So set out a realistic set of alternatives then.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Just for you to rubish and ridicule, bit pointless don't you think?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
all getting a bit personal now, let's keep to the subject matter.
please remember we are a club(not like posh barry's gentlemans club) but a club nonetheless.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
unless im missing something
if barryw gets his way and cuts back on public spending/services
this will result in big job losses(which has already begun)
thus we will soon reach the figure of 4 million.
but only if which ever govt was to cut as barryw wishes and as fast
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
KEITH
Barry hasn't said he wants 4 million people on the dole. He wants 4 million people to find work :)
Although he still hasn't said where these 4 million should find work.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
The argument from the right is fairly simple:
Cut the deficit as quickly as possible by cutting the only thing within their control, i.e. government spending, this will reduce the cost of government therefore freeing up revenue for debt reduction. It is the same approach advocated by the grocers daughter and reduces the management of the economy to the status of a household budget, whilst apparently ignoring the complexities, particularly those related to the impact on peoples lives. The consequence of reducing state spending will be to put large numbers of civil servants and local government officers out of work increasing benefit costs and reducing tax take, further it also appears already to be having the biggest impact on the weakest and most vulnerable in society.
The left in parliament have failed to offer any coherent alternative and in fact the Labour Party have tacitly supported the government approach.
The left outside of parliament advocate the alternative of boosting the economy through targeted capital spend, creating jobs and increasing revenues and the closure of tax loopholes to further boost income. They again take too simplistic a view as they do not clearly state how they will raise the revenue to fund the capital spend and also assume that the closure of existing loopholes will somehow return £120bn to the tax take - it wont, as those who avail themselves of these loopholes will ensure their accountants and lawyers find alternatives.
I do not claim to have the answers, but what is currently on the table from both sides will not work, or will rip our society apart.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Good post Ross - as you say, neither side have got all the answers; I do feel though that if the Conservatives could reduce the (financial) pain to the worse off, they would get more support.
Reg and Keith's suggestions are the kind that got us into this mess.
Howard your comment:
"in 2015 people will vote in a government that offers less pain, we can be asssured that at the hustings all parties will have to bribe us to vote for them - net result - an ever wider deficit" is so true and confirms what Barry is saying.
Roger
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
This whole deficit reduction 'confusion' reminds me of the old joke...
"A man is jumping up and down vigorously in a surgery waiting room.
"What are you doing," someone asked.
"I forgot to shake the bottle before I took my medicine."
The correct thing to do, even when such medicine is vital to effect a cure, would be to make-up the prescription to the the original formulation by adding more 'liquid' (equal to the - wrong - dose taken) and never again forget to shake before taking it.
So far, it appears to me, only the first part of the 'correction' has been done, 'we' still refuse to shake the bottle.
The thing to do, getting back to the original problem, is to apply the next dose of QE directly into the economy. That is, to create jobs that pay. We have, so far, devalued the Pound by 25 to 30% and in so doing only compensated the wealthy for the reduction in their spending-power. This MUST end.
Let us not forget that with all this talk of cuts there has been no reduction in borrowing.
I'll come back to the issue of the next election at a later date.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ROGER;
Reg may have made suggestions im unsure as to what apart from a slowdown in the cut backs, to take the stand you suggest roger, like barryw will affect most seriously the less well off, you can't have it both ways.
ROSS;
Indeed you made a good post, the only flaw(if i could be so bold lol) was the definition of left and right.
These days I believe it's just labour or conservative.
the two parties have just inter mingled.
ALEXANDER;
You are correct barryw did not say he wanted to put 4 million on the dole
but the impact of the cutting back of public spending in such a big way will have that affect.
as ross says, just throwing people on the dole and just paying them dole money and implications of having 4 million claiming dole doesnt bear thinking about
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Ross is right and I have no answer's either, only opinions.
BarryW thinks it is best to hit the less well-off and support the rich, claiming it is for the long term good of everybody.
I want the less well-off protected and see the rich pay their dues like the rest of us and I don't believe he cares what happens in the long term, other than for his well off pals and clients.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
I am not sure that is what Barry is advocating.
Unfortunately the policy approach he is advocating will have the effect of hitting the poorest hardest as the well off use little of government spending - equally all the evidence is that penal taxation levels (certainly any higher than we currently have would fall into that category) leads to a drastically reduced tax take due to capital flight. It is going to be incredibly difficult with the current tax rules and range of things government has to spend its money on to get a solution that does not hurt the poorest, but does not also cause the better off to move elsewhere. This is made more difficult as the contagion of the eurozone is affecting us as they are out largest export partner, which also impacts sterling and the rate the government has to pay on bonds negatively and it is also sadly leading to a contraction in opportunities for private capital to create business and therefore employment opportunities leading to increased tax take and reduced benefits spend.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
