Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Roger, working tax credits are not benefits. They are given to people who work.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Not to my brother Alexander; he's on minimum wage and has had his WTC taken away - and his housing benefit, without any explanation.
It was definitely a benefit to him - when he had them.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
how does he survive, the minimum wage is not enough to pay any housing costs?
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Howard.
That is a question that those who are dishing out the cuts and those who support the cuts need to answer?
BarryW response to cuts is:-
"Just because the medicine is nasty it does not mean it should not be administered to the patient".
Or is :-
"At the end of the day the best hope for anyone losing their job is a more healthy economy and what needs to be done has to be done. It has to get worse in some respects to get better."
If BarryW is right and he is entitled to his opinion, surely, you cannot implement these cuts on society and then wash your hands of the concequences of these cuts and the impact it will have on genuine people like Roger's brother?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - there is no option but to implement the cuts, indeed I have argued many times that the government are not cutting fast or deep enough.
If the cuts are not made, if the government keeps on spending as it does £5 for every £4 of income then the economic consequences will be catastrophic for everyone including Roger's brother. It is no exaggeration to say that we would soon be in Greece's position.
I have every sympathy for individuals who are in difficulties but their best chance is a healthier economy in the long term but they do have to get through this first. In fact the reason I want more cuts faster is to get through the pain faster rather than have it long drawn out.
I know and understand how Roger feels and how people have difficulty understanding this but the minimum wage and tax credits, combined with lax immigration, are all part of the problem here holding down 'flattening' incomes.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
But,
Barry, why is never all right to consider upping the £4 income? To £6 say?
Why only talk in terms of the utter impossibility of increased income? Impossible, at any rate, without a plethora of paupers.
Why we have a minimum wage and tax credits and why immigration can be seen as a problem is solely because of the greed of thoroughly unscrupulous employers.
Yourself and Dave can knock-on about a family, (notionally), in receipt of a 'welfare' income in excess of that available to an employed person without the least condemnation of the low wages available or the high rents as the norm, all you like, but there IS two sides to every coin.
Frankly, your eye is ever firmly fixed upon your own welfare. As you must be in line to earn from the most unscrupulous business people...a penny scrimped, a penny conned, a penny squeezed, a penny stolen... is a penny invested.
Invested where and in what?
Could it be that the penny is invested in some pension fund, the same fund that profits so greatly from accepting the terrible 'risk' of re-investing in the same economy it knows how to screw?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Cameron`s speeches yesterday signalled the end of `compassionate Conservatism` ( did not know it had started ) with
plans to crackdown on Welfare payments for the young,the jobless and large families.
The speeches designed to appeal to the Tory Right and when he makes such speech on cracking down on benefit payments
his Poll ratings go up.
He is not saying he is going to do anything....he wants a debate about it....It is not a policy....And if it was a policy it would
not be put up for years...And if it was put up they`d immediately withdraw it....If you called them the ``Not very
good at it Party``that might get more traction.
There are already questions over the cost,timetab and `Viability`of the governments ``Universal Cridit``policy.
It is already over budget and running late and this government is already spending more on benefits due to their
unemployment policies.
With approx 80 % of their deficit cuts still to come and their present policies not working,it does not look
encouraging.
What a way to run a Dance Hall.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
I am not thick, so there is no need to keep repeating your offering of your opinions as answers.
We all get that "the government are not cutting fast or deep enough" for you.
I think they are making cuts in the wrong place's, we are both entitled to those opinons.
The difference is that you think that "Your" opinions are fact; they are not, they are just your opinions, just as mine are.
I asked what the likes of Rogers brother is going to do until the economy recovers?
Cause and effect it is called.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Garyc
well said boyo, there appears to be a number of posters having differences of opinion to our barryw, did i miss something??
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it does seem that some unfortunates are being cut adrift through no fault of their own.
the fact is that the economy may take as much as 15 years to fully recover, what happens to people that need help now?
never had these problems with gordon brown.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Howard.
It is a simple but important question.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - my opinions are answers based on a detailed economic analysis from a professional point of view and I express what is needed economically and not what is convenient politically.
I see no realistic alternative analysis coming forward except complaints about cuts and when I point out what would happen if they were not made, silence.
We need to speed recovery and for that the burden on the private sector must be reduced as it is only the private sector than is able to deliver it. Howard - yes that 15 years is bad news for anyone struggling, that is why I say what I do. I prefer shorter sharper period of pain than a long drawn out agony. That is the best way to help people, get the pain over as quickly as possible. Something dramatic is needed, there is no easy or painless way out.
Tom - higher taxes offer no solution, just more economic contraction. We are already over-taxed and that is hamstringing the economy, remove more in taxes from the real economy and you will make life even harder more more businesses and you will end up with more unemployment in the very wealth creating sector where we really need employment growth.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
"But,
Barry, why is never all right to consider upping the £4 income? To £6 say?
Why only talk in terms of the utter impossibility of increased income?"
Would growth not increase income?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Barryw;
I have posed this one before, but lets try again,
to actualy achieve and see the public sectors cuts will throw 4 million on the dole.
and yes for those that still manage to survive all that life may well then get better
but for over 4 million it will get worse
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
But Keith there is lots of over paying in the public sector, and utopian working conditions that need balancing with the privet sector
Example doctors in franc Germany £50000 doctors the UK £100000.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
On the day that we hear of BBC Rogue Traders presenter Dan Penteado has pleaded guilty to council tax and housing benefit fraud to the tune of more than £24,000. Featuring the phrase, "failed to declare he had another bank account"
There is this...
"But one private banker in Zurich told Reuters in May he was giving his "smaller" clients with less than $2 million in funds the following advice:
"If you have a small amount of undeclared money, the smartest thing you can do is withdraw it in cash and put it into a safe deposit box," the banker said.
The bilateral tax deals, which are scheduled to come into effect next year, preserve privacy by imposing a one-off levy on undeclared legacy capital, plus a tax on future earnings. Clients who refuse the tax face having their names revealed to foreign tax officials.
There is no official data on how much undeclared wealth is sitting in Switzerland, whose banks hold about $2 trillion in offshore assets. But according to some estimates Germans alone have 200 billion euros in untaxed funds in Switzerland. "
From...
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/nervous-investors-fill-swiss-safes-130208924.htmlIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
If we do not cut the public sector then there will be even more unemployed in the private sector.... It is as simple as that Keith. I have said already there is no painless way out of this.
Tom - I have already answered that in #52 - it will not work and will just damage further the wealth creating private sector.
A long term solution can only come from a more profitable private sector and to do that we must reduce the burden of the public sector that it has to carry.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Businesses do have to be allowed to grow so they can employ more people; less red-tape and business taxes will help - even reducing NNDR would go a long way.
If the economy doesn't grow there's no hope for anyone and the private-sector is the best way for employment to grow.
Profit is NOT a dirty word, it is always a necessary reward and should be.
I do believe the cuts are being made in the wrong places; I think that child allowance should be restricted to the first 2/3 children; youngsters living at home should not have housing benefits or WTC either, but I've put all this in an earlier post.
One of my brother's problems is that he gets a small (minimum) wage and then commission on selling house and/or car insurance - or should be.
For the last six months, he has been entering a code number on the computer to show that he has made the sale and so gets the commission - he hasn't been getting any, so queried why not; they have now told him that he isn't getting it because for that period, he had been entering the wrong code number - he didn't know that of course, but the company did and kept quiet about it because they would have had to pay him commission.
How wrong can that be ? It is legal to with-hold money knowing that an employee is due that commission ? He has made the money for the company in sales and they have known that, but not advised him on the code number, until he queried it.
At the end of the day though, what he takes home is simply not enough to live on and no one cares - the WTC people don't care, nor do Shepway Council and nor of course
does theGovernment.
"No one will be worse off working, than being on benefits" somehow rings quite hollow - it has no meaning and certainly isn't true.
Roger
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
"more profitable private sector"
This is where the whole idea falls down.
This phrase, and many others like it, sound wonderful and oh-so simple. Even an idiot can 'understand' it. Just what an individual understands by such trite 'truisms' depends very much on the individual though.
Understood entirely differently by Roger's brother and his employers.
Perhaps a far better mantra would be, "increased turnover" and let the pre- and post-tax profits fit the circumstances.
It may be that the East India Company did not quite go out of existence in 1873, but was subsumed by the ruling establishment.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I bet you don't run a business Tom...
Roger - a cock-up is more likely than anything deliberate and they should pay him what he is due once the error is corrected or surely they would be in breach of contract.