Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 September 2010
07:1372675One thing is for sure, our present soft justice system deters nothing and since the death penalty was done away with murders have soared.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
27 September 2010
07:4472677BAZ;
I'
m not sure that's a factual observation, or just you sensationlising to make a point????
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 September 2010
07:5972680It is factual
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
27 September 2010
08:0072681BAZ;
I don't have information on this, and welcome views /facts from posters, or in fact barryw
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Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
27 September 2010
11:5672696Keef
In England and Wales, the murder rate has risen substantially since the death penalty was abolished in 1965.
But the population has gone up, is less homogenous and there are far more lethal weapons in circulation.
"You can't say that the death penalty has no deterrent effect. But there is no evidence that it is more influential than Life Without Parole sentences and first-class detection techniques."
Perhaps the most striking difference between Britain and the US is the number of homicides committed with firearms.
In the States, it is around 70%. Here, some 6%.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
27 September 2010
13:0872705MAREK;
So no real facts from BAZ, just an opinion that he feels hanging is the answer.
Thanks MAREK
and might I say well put
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Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
27 September 2010
13:3972711The homicide rate has risen from 6.8 per million of the population in 1965 to 14.1 per million in 1997. However the statistic only tells a part of the story. One university study estimates around 60 women a year are now murdered in 'so-called' honour killings. Knife crimes, and the surrounding knife culture has risen over the same period, reaching a peak in the mid 90's. Official estimates put the number of cases of knife crimes at 60,000 a year (in 2007) or 160 a day.
In 'honour killings' there is usually a reluctance among the family to report such murders and a difficulty in gathering proof. Knife crimes are often misadventure and spur of the moment crimes and as such better control of the availability of such weapons could do more to reduce the figures rather than spurious and barbaric deterence. I still stand by my assertion that education and prevention is far more desirable, and probably far more effective, than more legalised killing.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
27 September 2010
13:4072712CHRIS;
Blimey mate, im in agreement again
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 September 2010
13:5372713Keith - you need to be more patient and give someone a chance to see a post and to answer.
Murder rates in the UK have risen from 0.68/100,000 of population in 1964 to 1.42/100,000 of population today. (Home Office figures)
In the USA the trends since 1930 are very interesting.
From 1958 the number of murders increased while executions fell. Many States re-introduced capital punishment after a few years in which there were no executions. Since 1992 we have seen an increase in executions and we can see over the last several years a huge fall in murder rates. The long time that can be spent on death row must be allowed for in this but the trend is clear.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
27 September 2010
14:0272714BAZ;
IT'S NOT a matter of being impatient, Im not convinced we have the right, or should take the life of anyone.
I follow your discussion pieces baz, but don't support them.
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Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
27 September 2010
14:2072715OK, now I'm agreeing with you Keith, this is getting scary.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
27 September 2010
17:2272735That`s right Keith, but tell it to murderer`s.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
27 September 2010
20:4272763We all agree that killing is bad and people that kill are bad people so are we disagreeing that the rest of us seek to be good people?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
27 September 2010
21:2972769CHRIS
NOWT SCARY LOL
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27 September 2010
21:3972770This is going to sound weird, but sometimes people that kill are not "bad people", sometimes good people do bad things, and people are more than the sum of what they have done. But Chris - you are right, we should aspire to be good people not bad people..........it's all a bit complex!!
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
27 September 2010
21:4372772BERN;
Probably a good example of not all killers are bad people, would be a woman who has been beaten, abused, etc by a man for 30 odd years, put up with all those years, then suddenly flips killing him
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
28 September 2010
05:4172783I am ging to confirm BarryWs worst fears about my inner eejit now, but I also think there are run-of-the-mill murderers who are not "bad people", just people who have done "bad things". That doesn't mean I am excusing them or defending them - not by any means - but just seeing them in a kind of left field sort of way. I find it difficult to view things in black and white - sometimes I wish I could.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
28 September 2010
07:1372786Actually Bern I agree that all who kill are not 'bad people' and I would certainly not hang a woman (or man) for killing an abusing spouse.
I want the death penalty only for the very worse murders where there is absolutely no doubt of guilt and we can all think of several examples of these.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
5 October 2010
21:2573879Well, yahoo tells us of some English scum in the U.S. who`s been found guilty of rape and murder of a mother and her two daughter`s. You can look the story up rather than me writing it all out. He and an unknown accomplice face the death penalty. Piano wire would be appropriate for his hideous crime. Let the inmates sort them out first though.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
5 October 2010
21:4373881'Murder rates in the UK have risen from 0.68/100,000 of population in 1964 to 1.42/100,000 of population today. (Home Office figures)'
One of the more worrying things about this trend is the fact that A&E are a lot better at saving lives than they were over forty years ago.
I hate to think how many of today's assaults/attempted murders would have resulted in a fatality if faced with 1964 hospital treatment.