CLOSED
- 3 January 2015 20:30276491I apologise if this thread has upset ukip Dover or any individuals, this wasn't my intentions.
I will not comment on this mater again or attend ukip Dover meetings.
Apologies Keith. - 3 January 2015 20:36276492This has been on the cards for some time we saw it in Clacton when an individual made great strides with UKIP then was dumped to give Carswell a good run. We were told that by-election rules were different to other elections.
Not true Neil Hamilton was parachuted in to an Essex constituency against the wishes of the members and I keep reading that this is happening all over. - 3 January 2015 20:42276493nine years ago well sorry but I did not see you at our meetings when I was charman.
When I was running the show I asked all members if they would like to stand as a cllr or even MP but there was no takers that is why I went for them all.
If any members are not happy in Dover and I do not blame them ,they can do what I done stand anyway no one can stop you. And if any need help to do this then please come and see me and I will help them do just that.Do not take any notice of what you are told by anyone in UKIP,I know MO well and some of the others in the post above.They have at times try to remove me from meetings but that did not happen at any of them.All it is talk.When you need unpaid helpers you cannot hold a gun to their heads it is all about give and take and getting on with each other ,post,s like the one above will yet cost UKIP more votes. - Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
4 January 2015 09:26276499Those in "power" will always try to select those that will support them to be on committees be it at local level or national level so why would anyone expect Dover UKIP to be any different.
Democracy seldom manages to properly rear its head in politics or boardroom.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------- - 4 January 2015 09:32276500If I had paid 30 quid to be a member I would expect to have a say in who stands for the local council.
The specially selected ones will expect the rank and file to canvas for them, doubt that will happen though. - 4 January 2015 09:55276501I agree it should be down to the members and it does work that way .I cannot not see UKIP doing so well in Dover as other towns in the south east at election time unless the branch leaders take on what the members are saying +it could end up with not getting the helpers needed to go round the door to door and streets and that is where a party can win or not.You do not win seats at a meeting with just your own supporters there .you must get out and talk to the public .
- Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
4 January 2015 09:57276503I would have expected better from David, self interest over democracy! maybe he's aiming for the big league's? Not all that suprising and as I've said before still a lot of muck to be cleared from their stables!Arte et Marte - 4 January 2015 10:48276513I've been to some of UKIP's open meetings (none of the other parties locally do that), and at the last one the constituency organisation and selection procedures were described fully.
To such an extent that I as a non-member of this or any party can say that while Keith's concerns would need to be addressed internally not in public as things have moved on from the situation he describes, most of what is written in the replies above is a load of old tosh.
(Declaration of Interest - I went to junior school with Alan Shirley and his dad used to clean my windows, that's as much of my life story as you are getting!) - Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
4 January 2015 11:34276515It might be a good idea to remember this is one person's version of what happened at this meeting another could tell a completely difference tale, it all depends on who one chooses to believe.
Maybe David should give his version before we judge.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------- - Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
4 January 2015 12:01276518I don't think the issues of the meeting are the point, it's the lack of democracy in selection of candidates thats the real problem, especially for ukip very suprising!Arte et Marte - 4 January 2015 12:49276519If this thread is a load of old tosh that must mean Keith was mistaken and members voted in candidates as per the rules.
I have been in contact with 6 UKIP activists one a PPC (no0ne locally) and they all insist that candidates are chosen by paid up
local party members. - 4 January 2015 13:45276520Howard, I said Keith's complaints should be dealt with internally, and it was the replies on here from people who didn't know what had been going on that were a load of old tosh, very similar to the comments made on the thread about Bob Frost where people made assumptions without knowing the facts.
Perhaps you and Reginald should go along to the next UKIP open meeting and report back?
- 4 January 2015 14:08276522There is a public meeting next week Ray where one of our MEP's is heralding getting better deals for our fisherpersons.
All rather ironic as Nigel Farage was appointed to the committee that decides on quotas and failed to turn up to a single meeting. - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
4 January 2015 14:12276523fishing for the money fish. - 4 January 2015 14:19276524Good afternoon
I have received a complaint from a high ranking Dover ukip committee member
Upset About his name appearing on this forum.
He informs me that he has been working very hard for ukip over the last 6 months, and apparently I my self have NOT .
So in the interest of party unity I whish to sincerely apologise to him for any distress he may have felt , and beg his forgiveness.
I shall remove that bit - 4 January 2015 14:39276525Taken from the UKIP constitution, doesn't actually say one member one vote, all very vague.
Selection of candidates
12.4 The NEC may from time to time as it deems appropriate make rules concerning all matters relating to the selection, training, nomination, ranking, conduct, removal and organisation of candidates.
12.5 All candidates standing on behalf of the Party in any election to public office must be paid-up members of the Party "in good standing" and on the Party's list of approved candidates, held at Head Office.
12.6 In the case of a by-election (other than local government by-elections and other by-elections to local public office) the selection of a candidate will be made by the NEC in consultation with the constituency association or branch.
12.7 The selection of candidates for local government by-elections and other by-elections to local public office shall be the responsibility of constituency associations or branches. The Party Chairman may at any time refer the selection to the NEC. - 4 January 2015 18:17276530Being selective as usual Howard to stir things up!
UKIP
U.2 In general the local branch or constituency association shall have responsibility for candidate selection for local authority elections and by-elections.
Labour
Chapter 5 Clause III
1. The NEC shall issue procedural rules and guidelines
for the selection of local government candidates.
Local Campaign Forums, established in accordance
with Chapter 12 of these rules, shall be responsible
for implementing these guidelines in line with the
rules detailed in Clause I.1 above and following.
Local Campaign Forums shall agree their procedures
with the appropriate RD(GS) or other designated
officer approved by the NEC.
2. All nominees must fulfil the criteria to stand as a
prospective local government candidate detailed in
Clause I.1.B above. In addition, no person who is
disqualified as a parliamentary candidate under the
constitutional rules of the party, or under the
decision of party conference, shall be nominated or
selected as a candidate for any local government
election.
3. All nominees shall undertake, in writing, in a form
stipulated by the NEC, if elected, to accept and
comply with the standing orders of the appropriate
Labour group. All nominees, if elected, shall be
members of the national Association of Labour
Councillors.
4. The Local Campaign Forum shall determine and
endorse a panel of prospective local government
candidates in accordance with the procedural
guidelines approved by the NEC. The Local Campaign
Forum shall make the panel details available to the
branches covering electoral areas where selections
are due to take place.
5. Individual paid-up members of the party, resident in
the electoral area where the selection is taking place
and a member for at least six months at a date
determined by the Local Campaign Forum, will be
invited to participate in the process of shortlisting
and selection of their local government candidate(s).
6. The shortlisting and selection of candidates shall
consist of a vote, by eliminating ballot, of all eligible
individual members of the electoral ward/ division
on the basis of one member one vote.
7. Any disputes arising out of the non-endorsement of
nominees onto the panel of prospective local
government candidates shall be referred to the
appropriate regional appeals board. Disputes arising
over the shortlisting or selection meeting shall be
submitted to the appropriate Local Campaign Forum.
The NEC shall issue guidelines to the relevant party
units and any appellant for dealing with any
disputed matter.
8. Any exceptions to rules 1-7 above can only be made
with the approval of the NEC or an officer exercising
the powers given to them by the NEC.
Conservatives
15.3 Selection of Local Government Candidates
15.3.1 In the selection of Local Government Candidates, the Executive Council shall
either
15.3.1.1 maintain an approved list of potential Candidates for Local Government
elections, and submit suitable names to Branches for
selection by the Branch; whereupon the Branch may proceed to adopt
one or more of the Candidates; or
15.3.1.2 allocate Candidates to fight particular wards or divisions; or
15.3.1.3 allow Branches to select the Candidates of their choice but shall
approve such selection. Thereafter, the general meeting of the Branch
shall adopt the Candidate(s).
15.3.2 If the electoral Area extends beyond the Area of a single Branch the foregoing
procedure shall be carried out by the Branches concerned, acting jointly, under the
direction of the Executive Council.
15.3.3 A sitting Councillor shall be required to make a written application to the Executive
Council or Branch Committee as appropriate should he wish to seek re-adoption.
The procedure for re-adoption shall thereafter take place in accordance with the procedure set out in Paragraph 15.3.1 above.
15.3.4 The decision relating to re-adoption should be reached in reasonable time having
regard to the mutual convenience of both the Association and the sitting Councillor.
15.3.5 Candidates for principal Local Authorities shall be informed, before being selected,
that, if elected, they would be obliged to join the Conservative Councillors
Association and pay an annual subscription.
I didn't bother with LibDems or SNP, both irrelevant to Dover. - 4 January 2015 18:52276535Rubbish Ray the thread is about UKIP and not the other parties, looks like you are trying to stir.
- 4 January 2015 19:23276536BUT ukip is the party of the people ,dedicated to democracy and giving the people control ?
Don't the paying members rights to a vote mater?
If you have a small click deciding who stand and who gets rejected ,you have the possibility of bias towards the people that think the way the click thinks.
This is haw we have ended up with a parliament that looks full of the same people, accountant's barristers and finance. history shows us, their not that good at running government. But their very good at filling their pockets
Using the conservatives and labour party as an example is foolish
We know their not democratic. - 4 January 2015 19:32276538I am lost for words.
I am still being asked by members of the public to stand again because it will be very boring without you getting up and having your say at meetings .
Again yes I will miss it after doing it for a longtime but it is over for myself no more going for MP. and no more standing for any councils .
We all have to move on ,it is true to say I got no where in the years I done it ,but one can only do their best.
I am doing what I like to do out at the E.K.R.T. even that is to much for me but I will carry on because I am getting some where with the bridge and like doing it.