howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
plenty of talk over here about bringing utilities back into public ownership over the years but the germans seem more serious on the subject.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24763311Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Theres has to be a third way
public ownership doesnt work
nor does privatisation
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
you're sounding like tony blair keith.
the third way would have to be some sort of mutualisation but i doubt that neil would have the time to deal with it.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Nationalisation doesnt work
privatisation often doesnt
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the uk dosent work either.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
agree brian
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
a lot of people would like to see the rail network brought back into public ownership.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
having worked in the railway industry for 25 years thats maybe an option, but there was a lot of wastage in the public sector
and that would need to be tightened up on.
like the mining industry, the railway industry before it was broken up was like a family
I forged a friendship with friends across the railway industry
including one in Wales who came to my boys christening, and i went on hols to wales each year
and he came to dover.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
I predict power prices will become so expensive mass default of payments and mass theft of supply
Coupled with gas explosions becoming common
Du to theft
The sector will become unprofitable, and then the taxpayers will have to step in and bale it all out
Renationalization, the opening of coal and fracking to power it all
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
If nationalisation is the answer then you got the question wrong.
A state monopoly is no solution and would be subject to the same drivers pushing up prices but with the added costs and inefficiencies inherent in nationalised liabilities.
The real answer is more competition, easier switching between providers with greater price transparency with more providers entering the market. Any government serious about improving things will concentrate on that and not trying to take us back to old previously failed ideas.
That and stop the daft government/EU imposed green levies that are pushing up prices.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
never as simple as that barry, from the link in the opening thread.
"Perhaps significantly, when the wave of privatisations of public utilities swept Germany, two cities resisted: Munich and Frankfurt, the country's two prominent hubs of capitalism.
Were they right to resist a political fashion or just timid? That's what the rest of Germany is now asking."
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Barry
The conservative government or the Labour government
Never did anything in 25 years to give consumers a better deal
Time for change vote ukip
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith. We had the privatisation in the 80's that did get a better deal for consumers. Sad that Labour sold of the 'golden share' Mrs T retained.... If not for the privatrisation we would have certainly have far higher power prices now.
Better competition is how to get lower prices along with no government green levies.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
what have these have in common.
water,
gas,
rail fares,
petrol,etc
the answer is they have all gone up in price since being privatised.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
and more brian
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The utilities went down in price when they were privatised.
Since then previous under investment while state owned in renovating Victorian sewers is being corrected.
Previous state owned underinvestment in dealing with leaky pipes is being addressed ( too slow still in some places). Water companies have also had a whole raft of environmental requirements and costs imposed on them by the government and the EU all of which have to be passed on.
Gas - global demand increased pushing up prices and a nationalised monopoly would still face those costs and would have to pass them on but the prices would be even higher due to inherent inefficiency.
Rail fares - cleaner trains, better information, more modern trains, running better to time and previous state owned losses reduced.
Petrol - I assume you refer to BP who were privatised and are just one of many oil companies, more tax on petrol, higher market prices due to demand and BP now a world leading company freed from the dead hand of government.
etc... OK what about the NFC - the very first privatisation, the State owned loss making logistics company turned into a profitable world leader owned by its employees (including me at one time)
Then BT - remember when phones were in any colour as long as it was black, you had to have a dial unless you paid more for a trim phone and what about 3 months waiting list for a phone.....
Brian - face the facts. Governments and The State should have no role in owning any business, industry, service or enterprise. They are proven to be useless, costly and inefficient. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
munich and frankfurt are bastions of capitalism but clearly not hidebound by dogma.
a lesson for all those with blinkered views on state/;private ownership.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Barryw
(i waved to you whilst on the bus today, you were crossing at priory road) anyway to correct s some of what you say
1; Just on the utilities, I presume by your postings that you support the present hike in prices(whatever the reason)
2; Rail You obviously don't use the trains much,
Fares are to high, and rather than getting people out of cars and into trains, the big fares is having the opposite affect
which will clog up the roads, and that will have a knock on affect.
Clean trains, no cleaner than when they were nationalised
better information? certainly not
we have seen the present row over the cost of the HS2 as to whether or not this really is value for money and it should
be remembered to run these modern trains (HS1) the other trains lose there path times and it now takes near 2 hours to
get to London(quicker in the steam days!!!)
Trains do not run to time any better than when they were nationalised, in fact many trains are just cancelled with short
notice because there are no longer spare guards/drivers
Big big subsidies bigger than when it was nationalised no wonder things looked up for these companies getting millions
for running the franchaise.
Anyway mustn't go on to long(not one line though lol)
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith - no I do not but the price hikes are as much about government imposed green levies than anything else. I have said before, an end to such levies imposed by both governments and the EU and more competition in the market is what is needed not the creation of a new monopoly.
As far as rail is concerned the official figures show more people using rail than ever before. Yes, it is expensive, I do not disagree but the alternative is what? Higher and higher government subsidy, in other words a bigger deficit and more debt or larger spending cuts to accommodate them. A nationalised system will just mean less efficiency and higher costs to cover via subsidy and fares.
You have rose coloured specs for the old BR - all the complaints people make about rail today and more were made then. The trains were filthy and are far better today as is punctuality.
(I didn't see you by the way!!!!)
Guest 1103- Registered: 3 Nov 2013
- Posts: 759
Privatisation = profit profit profit. I believe it should be back into the national hands. but not for profit reasons.
Since companies privatised is all about profit making and aiming is high higher and higher. There is no such limit. There will be fancy words invented such as " Standing charge" etc. I could go on and on :) this is what I call super capitalism and happens everywhere.
There should be a healthy 50 / 50 and I think this could work.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud. Maya Angelou ☺🌈🌄🌌🌏🌍🌎