Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Costa is a Whitbread company and does not remit all its profits to a foreign parent as 'royalties'. And if Starbucks has had sales of £3bn in the UK, they will have paid VAT of £600m. VAT is always the biggest slice of tax money for any business.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
good old starbucks
got away with it then
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I think the customers are the ones who pay the VAT Peter, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 1459...Beat me to it Howard....have been a bit busy..
Good Bean Counters....nah...Starbucks using `clever` accounting has paid no tax in UK since
2009 with sales of over £ One Billion...Amazon`s last year Corporation Tax was a big zero...with
£ Three Billion £ 20 million sales
Finance Johnnies are the Pariah in our nations debt hole...we need a `fair` tax system and one
that stops all this nonsense asap...
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Starbuck sequel .................
UK government is coming under pressure to stop dragging it`s feet on reforming International Tax rules ....and while it`s at it to
reform our Tax system............
Tax Research UK says it is not a level playing field........don`t we know it.......
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Tax Research UK - a mere left wing pressure group.
Once again ignoring the real problem that is high taxes, complex taxes and excessive government spending and interference.
Only people with faith in the competence and righteousness of governments and politicians can support such insanely high government spending as we and much of the EU have. The present crisis shows how wrong such faith is. Learn the lessons.
We need less government, less taxation, less spending and simpler taxes. To that extent I can agree with the comment on the need for reform.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
but barry w theres little of what you say being proposed
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith - Osborne has set up a Tax Simplification Commission. I doubt that it will go far enough but it is a start.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
1463, Tom, that's technically correct, but it's Starbucks that actually pay the money to HMRC and it's Starbucks sales that generate the tax liability.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
That's right Peter, but it's a tax upon the consumer. Certainly a company is able to claim some of the cash raised to offset the VAT itself has paid, but the bulk of it is never company money. I'm sure a company cannot offset it's liability through such shenanigans that are employed to reduce other taxes.
Although a company is but a conduit for this tax, the Government money has to sit somewhere accruing interest for the time between collection and payment, so there is some reward.
I note that we both fall into the habit of discussing VAT in terms of 'liability', and I think we both fail in that regard. Liability infers that there exists a range of options. With VAT there are none, from private purse to public coffer the money is always HMRC's money.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
My point, Tom, was that if there was no Starbucks, there would have been no £3bn sales and no £600m in VAT paid.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Come come, Peter. If there were no 'Saxone' would people go barefoot?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 1471...nice `side stepping` try but the point of the thread was not paying Tax on the £ Three Billion sales.......nothing to do
with VAT....
# 1470 ...game set and match Tom.....
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well said reg
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Utter nonsense as usual.
A company legally arranges its tax affairs so as not to pay tax in this tax jurisdiction.... so what.
If our tax rates were more competitive then they could rearrange their tax arrangements so they are paid here.
As I have always said, high complex taxes are counter productive. Good luck to anyone who legally avoids contributing to the bottomless pit and endless demands of the taxman.
The freedom to resist excessive tax demands is an important brake on over mighty government.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
It will be interesting to see if some of their faithful customers continue to use Starbucks or go elsewhere. I admit I have never been in one and now never will, there is legal tax avoidance and then there is taking the p... out of a badly needing reform tax system.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
looking back at the facts starbucks are pleading poverty to the taxman and telling investors and analysts the opposite.
nothing to with the complex tax system.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I refuse to use Starbucks because I don't like their coffee much and I particularly don't like their prices. BTW at the new Cobham services on the M25 there is a branch of Greggs which does excellent coffee at least a third cheaper than Starbucks.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i prefer costa coffee to starbucks anyday.

Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Complex tax systems create opportunities to avoid tax, simply system make that harder Howard. Likewise high and uncompetitive tax rates incentivises people to avoid them. Starbucks are doing something useful in sending out a message that UK corporate tax rates are too high and complex.