Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
Pablo wrote:While the charges may be real, the timing is undoubtedly politically driven. It’ll be a year before Charlie gets a chance to clear his name in Crown Court. By then there will probably have been a general election and his career will be over.
Mr Elphicke is innocent and will continue to be so for at least the year you mention. Would you rather the CPS timed the charging of a person to avoid any inconvenience to the accused's career?
ray hutstone likes this
(Not my real name.)
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
No. But to leave such accusations hanging over a person for so long is unfair. Justice delayed is justice denied.
Brian Dixon, Jan Higgins and Button like this
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
There's nothing unfair about allowing the legal process to take its due course. How can you be so sure that Charlie didn't contribute to the delays in some way, wittingly or otherwise?
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
I think the whole point is that it is not only Charlie these very long delays affect.
In this case as in so many others it is also the accusers and witnesses together with the families on both sides who have to live with the stress for far too long. I suspect it is the lawyers on both sides with their various detailed communications going back and forth who cause the delays.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,227
On the timing of the charge and as a matter of public record, I note the sequencing of events with the charge and Priti Patel becoming Home Secretary.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Do they have history then?
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,227
He has been retweeting her endlessly for the past year - ERG friends and all that. So yes, history in a good way I imagine.
ray hutstone likes this
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
It's the Party, not the CPS, that concerns me; to withdraw the whip (again) strikes me as a gross misunderstanding of the judicial process - and I'm neither a Conservative nor a Charlie fan.
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(Not my real name.)
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
Charlie's latest words of wisdom....
"
Fighting for Small Business
As the saying goes, Britain is a nation of shopkeepers. A country where small business is the lifeblood of our nation. The job creators who fuel our economy and who we owe a debt of gratitude.
This is true across our great country, but it is particular true, here, in Dover and Deal. It takes real guts to set up a new business – with long hours and hard work essential to make it a success. Those who take the risk to create those jobs deserve our support.
Yet for too long small businesses in our regions were overlooked. Money was poured into London and the other big cities. Big business boomed, small business was ignored.
In our corner of Kent, small business is vital for people’s livelihoods. Ignoring small business has a high cost indeed. That’s why we fight for every single penny of investment.
While it is frustrating that we constantly have to make the case for more money and services, that hard work does pay off. Since 2010 we have been doing everything we can to bring more investment, to boost jobs and to help local business. And we have come a long way.
The total number of businesses in Dover was 2,180 back in 2010, now there are 2,585 businesses. That means over 400 new businesses have been created in Dover and Deal since, an increase of 19%.
Hundreds of millions have been invested in our area, with thousands of apprentices created. Apprentices which will be the entrepreneurs of tomorrow.
The impact of this is that 7,700 more people are now in work in Dover and Deal than there were in 2010. That’s an increase of almost 20%. And these aren’t just any jobs, they are better paid jobs with average pay now increasing to more than £510 a week.
What’s even better is that 82% of people in the constituency are now in work.
More businesses, more jobs, more invested, more apprentices and better pay. That is something each and every one of us should be proud of. But we must recognise that none of this would be possible without the courage and hard work of the businesspeople in our area.
While we've come a long way since 2010 – there is still much more to do. We must ensure that Dover and Deal continues to thrive and that firms across our corner of Kent get the support they need.
We must keep fighting to deliver the bright future we all want for Dover and Deal."
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,681
Dont know who does his research but 85% of people in work is a wild claim given that the ONS provide the following:
Less than 18% of the population are under 18
25.5% are over 65 - a number that is expected to rise to 45% by 2030
9% claiming disability allowances
2.2% claiming JSA
leaving only 45% who are economically active - i.e. working
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,206
I suspect it is of those 45% of people which he quotes 82% are working?
Arte et Marte
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
The joy of statistics, they can be used to prove or disprove a point, depending which side you favour.
Just for information, you can claim disability allowance even if working, some are able to work either from home or part-time but might need help in some way or another.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
Pablo wrote:No. But to leave such accusations hanging over a person for so long is unfair. Justice delayed is justice denied.
I know this is not Charlie but this case shows how lives and careers can be totally ruined by delayed accusations, blinkered investigations and trials.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49072066-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
To reflect for a minute on the more practical aspects, what are people's expectations for the future?
My assumptions (far from certain, I know) are that Boris's obvious campaign to change the withdrawal agreement will be firmly rejected by the EU. I suspect that Boris already knows this but has to be seen to be making at least some attempt. I'm also assuming that the 'no deal' exit which will unavoidably follow will be rejected somehow by parliament. Therefore only 3 choices remain for our new PM - revoke article 50, call a 2nd referendum or call a general election.
I can't conceive how the first 2 choices would be countenanced by the new cabinet, so an early election seems a reasonable final assumption. Where would that leave our sitting MP, I wonder? Would the local party support him against the might of a revised central office, if the case arose? Would central office risk parachuting in a new candidate? How would all this affect our local voting?
Any local psephologists out there? At times like this, I miss the late Howard's input. I never met the chap but he could always be relied upon for a measured, informed and intelligent response.
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
Boris knows (I am sure) that only backing down on some or all of May’s ‘red lines’ will yield any movement from the other side. So I expect that he will explore such an initiative in his initial discussions with Barnier et. al.
Hopefully he will eventually finish up with an EFTA/EEA solution, at least as an interim measure.
This outcome would give most people most of what they want and has the additional satisfactory result that it would confound the barking mad extremists on both ends of the debate.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
Clarity is certainly preferable to cloud, but an EFTA solution won't help the Dover Straits routes, although a withdrawal period would.
(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
#616 - I can't share your optimism, Pablo. If optimism it is.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,573
Ray you are correct Howard did well on his views on many different subjects.
Just on Boris, he will i'm sure try a watered down deal, and use the,,,,,,, we are out message
to convince people its the best route.
that's will go well until(if he achieves anything which I'm doubting) the people find out he has sold them down the river.
His only option after failing to get it through the EU or H.O.C. is the general election.
With so much uncertainty they will probably let Charlie back in,
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
I very much doubt Charlie will be let in again until his trial is over, Boris knows Charlie will probably vote as the party wants.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,227
Charlie had the whip removed almost as soon as the charges were announced. I suspect, therefore, that this might be standard operating procedure for anyone under criminal investigation. If that investigation is still to conclude prior to any GE, he surely won't be chosen to stand.