howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The likelihood is that we will be in a transition period for a few years but the EU are encouraging manufacturers to source new suppliers now. Once they have found alternatives who can supply at the right price and at the right time they won't switch back if it turns out we end up still in the customs union.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Times.
The Labour Party remains divided over the details of Britain’s exit from the EU, in spite of recent attempts to clarify its position and unify MPs, the shadow Brexit secretary admitted today. Sir Keir Starmer said that the opposition party had been riven by Brexit, and divisions old and new had become more entrenched at every stage of the process.
The main Brexit tribes in Labour can be classified as: Eurosceptic socialists
Brexit-sympathising socialists regard the EU as a neo-liberal capitalist club and have been around for as long as the union has existed. Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have long been sceptical of the EU, with Mr Corbyn saying that he has “long opposed the embedding of free market orthodoxy and the democratic deficit in the European Union”. Mr Corbyn went quiet on his reservations when he became leader, prompting accusations by Leave-supporting Labour MPs that he had abandoned his “natural and historic” position over Europe. The pro-Corbyn grassroots campaign group Momentum helped to block a potentially embarrassing vote on the single market at last year’s Labour Party conference and are keen to rally round the leader, whatever his Brexit line. The veteran Labour MP Dennis Skinner believes that the union is undemocratic and claims to have voted against every EU treaty over his 48 years in parliament. Others of this tribe include Ronnie Campbell and Kelvin Hopkins, who co-chaired Labour Leave but at present has had the Labour whip suspended while allegations of sexual harassment are investigated. Mr Campbell said: “I am a leaver, and I always have been. MPs are elected unlike the EU bureaucrats, and if people don’t like how MPs vote then they can get rid of us and that’s how it should work.”
Non-Marxist Brexiteers
The poster-child for this tribe is Kate Hoey, a fierce Brexiteer who voted against the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties and believes that Eurosceptism has a natural home on the left. These types have been around since the beginning of the EU, and often point to Clement Attlee’s opposition to joining the Common Market as evidence of the centre left’s long-standing Eurosceptic potential. Kate Hoey campaigned with Nigel Farage for Brexit. Hoey faced flack for declaring that the Good Friday agreement was “unsustainable”, and was compared to Donald Trump after saying that if there were to be any border with Ireland, they would have to pay for it. Frank Field is another prominent Brexiteer and a firm believer of stronger immigration rules. He previously said he hoped that Brexit would encourage social democratic parties to “rise up against the existing EU model” across the continent. Ms Hoeysaid: “Labour MPs must rediscover the spirit of Clement Attlee. Attlee opposed the UK joining the Common Market, which he viewed as an inward-looking, protectionist club.”
The ‘Shinys’
“Shiny” is the moniker given by some Labour MPs to identify their fervently pro-EU colleagues, supposedly referring to their love of the limelight. For many Labour MPs who were passionately in favour of EU membership, the referendum result only entrenched their beliefs. Chuka Umunna is one of those who has been accused of loving the limelight over their EU position. The Shinys have been fired up ever since, trying to shape Labour’s Brexit policy, and they have not shied away from rebelling against the party. The group is led by Chuka Umunna, who tabled an amendment last year demanding explicitly that the UK should remain in the single market and the customs union. Daniel Zeichner, Andy Slaughter, Catherine West and Ruth Cadbury all gave up their positions on the Labour frontbench to vote in favour of the amendment. This tribe also includes second referendum backers, such as Mr Zeicher and Ms West, as well as David Lammy, Geraint Davies and Ben Bradshaw.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
looks like dave [ the rave ] davis might be handing his notice in if mrs may gets her own way over the customs union.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
I'm surprised he's lasted this long. It's a role way beyond his limited abilities.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon wrote:looks like dave [ the rave ] davis might be handing his notice in if mrs may gets her own way over the customs union.
He has been looking for a way out for ages hoping to come across as a man of principle but the truth is he totally out of his depth and knows it.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
The problem with Brexit is that the regulation party political bashing and general squawking - knowing you are backed by a majority - doesn't cut it. You actually have to know what you are talking about. Alas, such requirements has left the UK political class in complete turmoil.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,137
Here's Rod - ' bored with the relentless whining and scheming of the hysterical, bed-wetting Remainers'. In this case #MeToo
https://www.thesun.co.uk/uncategorized/6468659/rod-liddle-eu-mess-implode/"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Ah - a Sun reader, eh?
Guest 1881 likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Back in the late 90s I was convinced that the EU would collapse within a decade as all the indications were that small was beautiful. Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia both splintered and the real nations emerged happy to be independent again. Separatist groups in Italy and Spain thrived both onshore and offshore which tends to point to the fact that people overall don't like being ruled by a big bureaucracy.
Rather ironic that north of the border the SNP want independence from the UK and then be ruled from Brussels.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,137
ray hutstone wrote:Ah - a Sun reader, eh?
Yup. I find the crossword whiles away the time on long rail journeys and the Horoscope is quite accurate:-
Sagittarius - try not to get too uptight about inane comments on Dover Forum.
Though I must confess I miss drooling over the t*ts on Page3.
John Buckley likes this
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,137
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Times.
In the fable of the boy who cried wolf there are two obvious lessons, although one tends to be cited more frequently than the other. Aesop describes a shepherd boy raising a false alarm repeatedly. When a wolf does eventually turn up, the boy is not believed by the villagers and the sheep in his care get eaten. The moral is: don’t issue false warnings, because you might not be believed when it matters. The second, equally important lesson in the context of Brexit and the deplorable shambles at the heart of the British state, is that there was a wolf. And the sheep got eaten. The final warning of potential disaster was worth listening to after all. Aesop’s tale comes to mind when listening to the latest statements from British business about the government’s appalling lack of preparedness for this country’s departure from the EU, due to happen in only ten months’ time. Their bleak warnings are worth listening to. In recent days those pleas have moved from the generalised squealing and professional Remoaning of the past two years to much more precise criticisms that should make Brexiteers sit up and pay attention.
The Freight Transport Association declared this week that the government’s inaction has put Britain on a “road to nowhere” and that businesses are on the brink of being “destroyed”. Not a single one of eight demands for clarification and reassurance on keeping trade flowing has been dealt with properly by ministers, said James Hookham, deputy chief executive of the body representing an industry that is the logistical lifeblood of the economy. “We keep getting told that all food and agricultural exports to the Continent and Ireland will be checked at EU ports,” he said. “But there is nowhere to check them, and the system to check them does not exist.” Meanwhile, as The Times revealed, 39 IT projects designed to make government more efficient have had to be suspended because of Brexit overload. The bill in lost savings and tax revenue could be in the billions.
In the highly integrated European motor industry, lack of clarity about an agreement has meant that preparations for a no-deal Brexit have gone up a gear. The Dutch government has issued advice to suppliers to make arrangements in anticipation of the moment when they cannot use British manufactured components.
The temptation for my fellow Brexiteers might be to file all this in the bin marked Project Fear II. So entrenched has the Brexit debate become that hardline Leavers accuse anyone issuing a warning about an aspect of Brexit of displaying insufficient enthusiasm, and worse. On the contrary, business needs to make its voice heard even more loudly, because prime ministerial drift means the country is at a point where basic preparations have not been made. It is an unforgivable situation. The next European Council is in just three weeks’ time. It was supposed to bring clarity and progress, with the transition sorted and the two sides heading towards a final deal. Now, the line in London and Brussels is that June was never meant to be much of a big deal. The aim seems to be to push decisions back into October and December. There is still not even a settled British position on a customs deal.
When Theresa May is pressed on this and other matters, it is like “talking to a void”, says one minister. “She just shrugs.” “Theresa cannot make decisions,” says a cabinet minister.
Perhaps, but one decision she did make, it seems, was to agree with her lead mandarin Olly Robbins to delay yet again the publication of the Brexit white paper explaining the government’s position, because the EU might feel bounced. Attempts by David Davis, the Brexit secretary, to speed things up have so far got nowhere. The internal situation described by other ministers is as bad as anything I have ever heard, and that includes the 2003 Iraq war and the 2008 financial crisis. In the latter case there was at least an air of realism about the practicalities of the challenge and eventually a plan, whether you approved of it or not.
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,085
'The UK is clear...The UK is clear'. Repetition doesn't make it so. Methinks the UK doth protest too much.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,137
Weird Granny Slater wrote:'The UK is clear...The UK is clear'.
Isn't this what you call when using a defibrillator?
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
no more like the muppet show.
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Captain Haddock wrote:Yup. I find the crossword whiles away the time on long rail journeys and the Horoscope is quite accurate:-
Sagittarius - try not to get too uptight about inane comments on Dover Forum.
Though I must confess I miss drooling over the t*ts on Page3.
Fit a mirror on every page and you'll see t*ts on more than just page 3.
(Couldn't resist the open goal.)
Guest 1997 and howard mcsweeney1 like this
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
nice to see you 2 boys are getting abreast of things
Guest 1881 likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I think this latest tantrum from Boris is more to do with his battle with Michael Gove to be next leader rather than the weak negotiations with the EU.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-boris-johnson-speech-leaked-theresa-may-trump-david-davis-a8389151.htmlGuest 1997 likes this
