Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
30 December 2010
16:5786861as i said howard, you and I have no idea why that police car parks there and knowing a little about police they may well have been there with good reason on another job
the town centre bobby has a different job completely
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
30 December 2010
17:0986862Keith it is not a question of 'pushing cyclists onto the roads', that is the only place they are legally allowed to ride. It is they who have invaded the space reserved for pedestrians. Your excuses on behalf of the police are pure humbug. They just can't be bothered.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
30 December 2010
17:1186863peter
i don't disagree with your comments
but i'm one to look at the bigger picture, and whilst cyclists shouldn't cycle on pavements we should make it safe enough for them not to
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
30 December 2010
17:1386864Yes I agree(see previous posts) but in the meantime, if we do not enforce ALL laws then ALL law is discredited. That cannot be allowed to happen. There is no bigger picture than that.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
30 December 2010
17:1786865peter(making a habit of thislol
)
don't disagree, but it's about police priorities together with that of the public.
and cycling may not be top of the priorities
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
30 December 2010
17:1986866Speak to Rudi Giuliani about bottom-up zero-tolerance policing and then get back to me about police priorities.
Cycling is not the issue. The issue is letting people break the law openly without penalty.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
30 December 2010
17:3486870peter
my last post just disappeared will try again
I fuly support your views, but it needs a lot more education, and the probs of the world cant all rest on the shoulders of the police
everyone has a role to play
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
30 December 2010
19:2186888you are right keith, society has to shoulder responsibility for anti social behaviour.
having said that the police are the only ones that can do something about the results.
the general public see the police service as run by the top brass who are committed to getting good crime figures, a tiny fraction of the time of the average copper is actually outside the station.
the only reason people report minor crime against property is so that they can get a crime number to facilitate an insurance claim.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
30 December 2010
19:2586889The police SHOULD prosecute cyclists when they break the law just as they do car drivers. I can never understand why they differentiate between car drivers and cyclists they are both easy targets.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
30 December 2010
20:3586900I am all for the law being applied correctly and even handedly - so whilst PC Garstin is busy fining cyclist £30 for riding on the pavement the rest of local traffic cops can get on and do they job they are supposed to be doing and making sure motor vehicle users abide by the law.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
30 December 2010
20:3886901Motorists are already used as a cash cow by the Government.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
30 December 2010
20:4686903Cycling on pavements is just another example of 'turning a blind eye' to minor law-breakers, but it is highly dangerous - for everyone.
---------------------------------------------------
Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
30 December 2010
21:3586906The vast majority of car drivers obey the law, it is a small minority who flout it. This is, sadly, not true of cyclists.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
30 December 2010
22:2286908I seem to remember a statement like that before on another thread, I bet the percentage is very similar to car drivers with the same ones flouting the law. A bit like car drivers who insist on parking on the pavement on a wide road, I always want to scratch their paintwork with my trolley when I have to sqeeze past them.
If laws are not to be enforced why do we bother to have them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
31 December 2010
05:5786917i dare any one to define the word anti social to a fine point,in any case arnt we all guilty of being anti social at times.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
31 December 2010
08:3086919In a nutshell Brian - "Against Society"; in your sense you are probably right that many of us do, at some point, do something against society; it's the persistent offenders that are the problem - whether they are cyclists or noisy neighbours, or whatever.
You see the majority of cyclists doing their offending at road junctions or one-way streets.
I do believe that if PCSOs and/or the enforcement officers of DDC (currently just fining parking offences) widened their duties to stop and fine cyclists, then a lot of money could be raised to help DDC - and stop people cycling where they shouldn't; stop people littering; stop useless, irresponsible dog-owners from leaving their dogs poo all over the place etc. etc.
I do believe in zero tolerance on minor offences as well as major ones and publish and shame those who do any of them.
Roger
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
31 December 2010
09:5386928I actually doubt that your statement is true Peter
The vast majority of motorists take the speed limit as advisory not absolute and as one Chief Constable commented earlier this year speeding is the middle class form of anti social behaviour. there have been far too many deaths on our roads locally and nationally caused by speeding vehicles.
A local example would be that I have yet to see a motorist take the slip road by the Sports Centre and White Horse leading to Castle Hill on the correct side of the road unless there is a car coming down it.
There is honestly no comparison between a half ton plus motor vehicle and a pedal cyclist. Yes you will get hurt if either hits you, but the likelihood of that hurt being fatal is significantly greater with the former. A pedal cycle is unlikely to block the pavement when parked. It does not cause significant damage to the road surface, nor does it cause any meaningful amount of pollution over its life.
Roger - I walk my bike through the pedestrianised areas I go the long rather than direct route so I do not ride on the pavements - the Dour Greenway will certainly make a difference to me and I welcome it.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 682- Registered: 19 Jan 2009
- Posts: 146
31 December 2010
11:1486938Interesting theme this - as has been said, riding cycles on the footpath, unless it is a dedicated to both cycles and pedestrians, is against the law.
I once spoke with a senior local police officer on this and his reply was surprisingly - 'They are safer there' - my reply was not to elderly and young pedestrians where they came from behind.
Keith, maybe from your experience as a PCSO you would like to enlighten us on whether this could be enforced by PCSO's as the police priority appears to be very low - that is not, can they do it under their present powers, it is could they do it if the Chief Constable were to adopt some of the many other offences that PCSO's could have?
Cycle paths are the way ahead especially with cycling becoming more popular and in urban areas these may need to be partly pedestrian cycle routes due to width restrictions.
When a small group of us, including Kent Highways and Sustrans, walked the route some months ago now, we counted 18 cyclists on or very near to the route - very encouraging to the project we were working on.
Yes, work on the next phase of the River Dour Greenway is scheduled to commence on 4th January and part at Buckland Avenue has already been undertaken. This phase will involve work at the junctions of Buckland Avenue with Lorne Road and Cherry Tree Avenue with new crossing facilities and some restructuring. The Greenway route will be coming from Buckland Bridge/Buckland Avenue, into Brookfield Place, Alfred Road, Lorne Road, Cherry Tree Avenue and onto Barton Path before making its way to Ladywell - the stage from here to the sea front will be following later as funding becomes available.
It has been good productive work between the partners especially Simon at Sustrans who Paul W and I got to know at the Regional Transport Board. As Howard indicates, there was a strong indication at one point that the KCC funding could be lost but through lobbying and drawing their attention to the facts, eventually the funds were in the budget again - easily said in a few words there but is was quite an effort at times but we got there.
Scotchie - there are plans for cycle paths in the Deal area - there is a cycling plan but so far there has been local objections against two schemes so funding has currently been lost from KCC.
As those of you who know me will appreciate, I am very keen on road safety having chaired the Dover Joint Transportation Board during the discussions for improvements to the Dover - Deal road and seen some of the horrific photographs that Kent Police hold. I was therefore appauled to see the headlines in both the Dover Express and the Dover Mercury this week - luckily it seems as if the young lady will be OK and hopefully she will not have the memories for very long - this is appauling behaviour on our roads so, if the 'driver' is reading this, please contact the police and get your guilt off your chest - you will feel a lot better.
Nigel
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
31 December 2010
11:2586941Welcome back Nigel,see there was 2 accidents on my favourite part of Dover over Christmas,Frith Road to Buckland Ave.Still nothing being done on the Frith Road Junction,the other was a post Box outside the Post Office at Buckland Ave broken beyond repair.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
31 December 2010
12:0386942The Frith Rd accident late on Christmas Eve was a hooligan boy racer being pursued by the police along Bridge St who went straight on at Charlton Green traffic lights, against the one-way system, then collided with a taxi coming the other way at the junction with Castle Ave. (I have spoken to an eye-witness) I don't think that with the best road planning in the world you can do much about that sort of thing.
PG.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson