Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
Following the G20 demo in London we have heard nothing but condemnation for the role of the police in the whole sorry affair. We had that chap dying, possibly as a result of being pushed over, but we will never know for sure. We had the girl given a backhander, who has since sold her story to the newspapers, and now we have a third incident where a demonstrator was clobbered by a Police riot shield.
But I am saddened however the way the whole nation, led of course by the newspapers, has suddenly become over senstive re the role of the Police at these events...what do people expect? They are human. They are in a very difficult situation. People are abusing them, spitting at them, kicking them, very often throwing bricks and bottles at them, so is it any wonder that one or two of them get fractious in some cases. The on-the-job stress is enormous.
Now we have the unfortunate situation where some of the police are to be held up to very serious account for events that happen so fast in the heat of the moment...what were they the Police doing, just protecting peace and property at the behest of all of us.
Enter from the wings one Max Clifford...who as we all know is quick to raise a sleazy buck over every sleazy situation, and this time has managed to secure a deal worth a fortune for the girl that was backhanded. Young attrative and backhanded, the result=easy money. The upshot of all this sudden earnings power will clearly be that everyone else will try it on in future. In fact they are all coming out of the woodwork as we speak re the G20, claiming this that and the other in the hope of making a fast buck, this new phenomenon is already under way.
Sheesh! Who'd be a Policeman?
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#2
Paulb
You are right on this one, it is a difficult situation, and you have to be in it to understand it.
Just to give you an example iv been in a situation where a person was beiung arrested, with that the mothrer tried to stop the arrest so was also arrested with that over 50-60 people came out of there houses to cause grief and attempt to intimidate.
Maonnaise put all over windscreeen
The TV Will pick up the bad points and theres not an excuse for the incidents, but theres probably far more went on before the incident which probably provoked it.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#3
another case from the compo culture crowd,they do it out of greed to earn a fast buck.
#4
HA! I always thought we were supposed to be protected by the police? It seems these days we need protection FROM the police!
I was once stopped by a copper in Dover for shoplifting - I have never forgotten the experience! I hadn't stolen a damn thing, it was mistaken identity (I was only saved when the security chap ran out of Iceland and told them I was the wrong guy) but up until that point the two cops were disgracefully rude, treating me like I was the scum of the world. Yes the police are only human but they need to be better than this if they are to maintain any respect.
I actually think it's GREAT that the public can use their own version of CCTV (ie camera phones) to provide surveillance evidence when the authorities cock-up! It's poetic justice, turning Big Brother in on itself, sticking a finger up to every top brass bigwig who thinks we should all be part of their human zoo. Hey, WE can play those games too! I know the media like to churn these things up and make big dramas out of it but hey ho, this is the media-frenzied sensationalistic world we live in.
Guest 650- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 542
#5
Indeed, I'm sure more went on than we know - but hardly edifying, though, was the video of the policeman running about just behind the line, looking for gaps through which he could wield his baton on the protesters, and even leaping on the shoulders of policemen in front of him to do so.
I have every sympathy for the police who have to face some of the greatest abominations, and manage usually to stay sane under extreme provocation. However, I do have the feeling that on occasions more than reasonable force has been used by them, and while I appreciate that they have a very difficult job indeed, it's nevertheless the case that this cannot and never should be acceptable.
Perhaps it's a good thing that there are the technologies these days to record what happens - it begs the question otherwise of exactly what the police might be getting away with. At the same time, however, one would hope that these technologies would also reveal what the police have to put up with. One question certainly raised is that of the individual responsibility and attitudes of people who just maybe attending such events with violence in mind.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#6
I find the habit of the police to deny, then try to cover up these things the saddest part, they should acknowledge that these things happen, deal with them openly and speedily and most importantly amend training of all ranks to minimise the likelihood of these things happening in the future.
It is often difficult for the police, but they should be better than this, they are meant to protect us bot attack us. Of course there are people on many demos who want to take the police on, equally there is a growing number who appear to want to get themselves in positions where they can make claims for compensation; these however are always the minority. The police need to learn how to isolate the trouble makers from the peaceable majority speedily and quickly rather than inflicting poor treatment on all.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
#7
Rick - with you on this one. The police do a difficult job, and some do it well, but I have only met a handful of them. The rest seem to me like to one who told me, rather aggressively, "who'd believe an irish bitch like you" in one of those "mistaken identity" nightmares similar to what you described. I was pulled over once, years ago, by some border cops on the way to Ireland, with all 4 kids in the back when they were little. The red-faced hairy-ar*ed copper put his head in the window and started being somewhat discourteous as a pre-cursor to hauling us all out and searching the car. From the back my little 6 year old son piped up "Mammy, is that The Filth?" hesitating only to gather my breath I looked the copper in the eye and said "no, son, when it's one on his own he's a Pig". With hindsight, I could perhaps have saved myself a bit of bother if I'd held my tongue!!!!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#8
I think the fundamental problem is that the Police Force have lowered their minimum entry standards of education in order to attract more people into the service. It has happened in my old service where the minimum requirements were 5 'O's 2'A's a Degree and another language.Recently I saw an advert for the Service stating..."no formal qualifications required". Yes I agree education does not maketh the person but it is some form of measure by which to assess the applicants background.
The Police do a very difficult dangerous and unenviable task but in doing so they must rise above the crimbo, protestor and fraudster.Acting like thugs in London does nothing to enhance the Polices reputation within the community at home or abroad.
The incident that PaulB refers to is a perfect example of Police thuggery.The poor man was walking away and had his back to the Police Officer that struck him.A cowardly act in anyones book. Maybe he was following the example set by Maggie Thatcher and the sinking of the Belgrano as it fled the no go zone in that the chap posed a clear and present danger. *ollocks.
They are paid to uphold the law and prevent it not flout it.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
#9
Part of the problem is that the police do not endear themselves to the public. Why for example do they remove or obscure their "force numbers" or numerals when attending such events? Each one should have displayed on their hi-vis vest their identity.
Why do they confiscate video tapes (and I witnessed this at the animal rights demos a few years ago) when someone films their actions?
Most coppers are honest BUT there is a huge cover up culture in the heirachy.
If it hadn't have been for the melee at the G20 demos and the police were more in control I doubt very much that the pictures and videos would have emerged, they would have been grabbed.
I have got to the age where I am cynical and trust no-one.
Terry
ps Didn't one of the "Young Ones" have a rat called TSG?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#10
to me the problem is the pack mentality to some of them.
the average copper with his or her oppo, is normally ok.
specialist units tend to attract the wrong types that feel that they are above the the law when in a group.
i have seen this in action many times over the years at public rallies and sporting events.
you can see them looking out of their vans, with glazed looks, tooled up and protected up to the nines.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
#11
Got to say that I don't envy the police their jobs. It's a dangerous world out there and violence and drugs make it worse. I couldn't do their job even if I was young and I feel a lot safer knowing they are out there protecting us. My nephew is a police sargeant in Manchester and some of the things he has to cope with are awful. Let's not forget that they are men and women the same as us and can be fallible just like us. The abuse they have to put up with daily is inexcusable, specially when it's from youngsters, some only a few years old. They wouldn't be human if they didn't react sometimes. It's easy to knock them but we would be very lost without them. I think they do a bloody good job and I have a lot of admiration for them.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Alec Sheldon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
#12
I submitted a post on the Forum a couple of months ago on an unrelated topic about my experience of the police. Howard was the only one to make a comment.
Here it is again. Whilst on a peaceful picket outside the Eastern Docks during the P&O strike in 1988 I found myself facing a policeman who I knew and lived opposite to me. We were doing a bit of shouting, nothing violent. The policeman in front of me said "Alec, you are doing it all wrong, have a surge now and then". My reply was "no thank you ?????? (he is still about now so I will not mention his name) we are doing quite nicely without having a surge".
They wanted us to make a surge so that they could get their batons out. We didn't take the bait and our picket went on peacefully.
On the whole we had a good relationship with the police but there were one or two bad eggs amongst them. We were told at one period that the "Met" were coming down and they would sort us out.
#13
In my oppinion it would seem to me that the Met police seem to beleive that they are a law unto themselves, and they can do no wrong.
#14
Jacqui, there are many decent coppers, I just haven't met many - and the ones I have met, by and large, have been bullies. Yes, they have a lot to deal with and yes, many of them deserve our support - and actually, they have mine - but there are too many rogues and bullies, too little accountability, and that has led directly to public hostility and mistrust.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#15
there has been nearly 90 complaints so far about the g20 policeing,acording to the news on the radio.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
#16
Bern I know you're right but it's the bad ones that get the headlines. When do we ever read a story about something good they've done? There are good and bad in all professions.
Brian don't you think this is again the media? Look at the cases of Shilpa Shetty/Jade Goody and Jonathon Ross/Andrew Sachs - once one person complained it spiralled because everyone wanted to get on the bandwagon. Sorry but I don't believe everything that gets printed in newspapers and neither should you.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#17
errr it was a radio report as from a radio news report.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
#18
Err - Media does mean radio/television and press Brian.
I'm not getting at you, it just really annoys me when the media pick up on things and to get viewers/listeners/readers they twist everything to make it more newsworthy than it really is. What they don't know they make up half the time
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
#19
True - the media creates and drops "stories" as dictated by their owners/directors, political whimsy and public pressure (less so the latter!), and we should all keep a large tub of salt handy when reading the papers. However, there is a real swell of opinion about accountability in the police, and quite rightly. There are good ones - as in every organisation - and there are bad ones - it isn't necessarily even the individuals as much as the processes and accountabilities that need to be examined. Some individuals will spark it off, but let's hope it's less witch-hunt and more intelligent appraisal of the systems.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#20
i must make my position clear here, the majority of police, like in all jobs, do their job correctly.
alec pointed out his experience during a strike, this seems to happen too often for comfort.
during the miners strike when picketing was officiated by the local constabularies, there was a general concensus about behaviour.
this all changed when the met were drafted in to the yorkshire pit villages with the promise of large overtime payments.
they knew that at the end of the strike they could go home with no recriminations.