26 November 2010
00:1681711#1
Today we have another example of the contempt that the tory party holds the public in. I am of course referring to the statement by the proposed new member of the house of lords Howard Flight.
Mr Flights expressed the opinion that half of the population, (the middle class) would benefit from benefits, namely that it would put a brake on there breeding. where as the working class would collect there benefits and retire to there burrows for an excess of hanky panky??? (I know which class I would prefer to be in given half a chance, a burrow has a certain appeal) David Cameron was quick to disassociate himself from the opinion expressed, to his credit. However it does highlight an on going tory mind set that we are still a nation of class, and in there opinion thet the tories are the upper class.
Question for Blue Barry. Which class are you ??
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2010
06:1781712#2
You are of course speaking of Howard Flight's mindset, not that of the Conservative Party.
He should not have said what he said but the big problem was how he said it.
Look at what he was really trying to say. He pointed out that many people being responsible and working hard find it difficult to afford to have children while, on the other hand, there are those on benefits who have childen almost as a career path to a pay rise.
Remember the case a few months ago as an example where some tart who has never worked was able to afford her boob job after having a child (something like 4 children from 3 fathers).
What bothers me most is the way the left are trying to restrict freedom of speech with a hysterical reaction to anyone who speaks their mind.
As for me Jimmy, I am just Dover boy from Tower Hamlets. I dont do the class thingy - an irrelivant concept that the left are obsessed about.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
26 November 2010
07:2481714#3
I agree Barry.
The question came up on Question Time last night and the sensible view was that Middle England type of people would most likely reduce the amount of children they had, whereas many people on benefits, who would of course get an increase in benefits, would have more children.
Some one quoted fugures that showed the last time benefits went up, so did the number of births amongst those on benefits.
The argument could have been much better put and less emotive words used.
Because one person of a policital pursuasion says something, doesn't mean that the whole of that party thinks it too, or agrees with it.
If everyone is going to resign after saying something "Non-PC" then it will be a sad old world.
Apparantly (it was said last night) that John Bercow ran into the back of David Cameron's car and they both got out of their respective cars and John Bercow said "I'm not happy", so David Cameron said "well which one are you ?"
Some laughed, some thought it was an insult to dwarfs !!
Roger
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
26 November 2010
08:2381716#4
Yes I think we would all agree that Howard Flight's outburst was very unsavoury. but what is worrying is the notion that there is a them and us society. Quite clearly Lord Young last week and Lord Flight ( to be ) this week clearly see the lower poorer classes as some sort of alien cattle. They are quite clearly talking about a species alien and unknown to them, a them and us situation....making a nonsense of the notion that "we are all in this together".
This is what has horrified Cameron in both cases.
But lets be clear, the real problem here is a cabinet and close appointees thereof, with no affinity with and to ordinary people.
Yes the real problem here is the outbreak of multi-millionairism!!
We have a cabinet riddled with this affliction. Something like 17 multi-millionaires grace the frontbenches. Not ordinary grade millionaires, no, but millionaires of the 'multi' variety. Surely a cabinet and close appointees should bear some reflection to society as a whole. They should mirror society in actual fact. But they dont.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
26 November 2010
09:4381727#5
yes paulb
you are correct, these comments mirror many thinkers within the tory party who think of this class system and a them and us type of view.
in the lords this gent was jst hghlighting many in the ranks realy think
as for the speaker of the house i actually believe he does a good job, d cameron doesnt share that view
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2010
10:2881733#6
What tripe PaulB.
For a start Howard Flight is not in the Cabinet, he is not a junior minister and is not even a government adviser.
What he is, is a leading expert on financial services.
He expressed himself wrongly and badly but did raise a valid point.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 November 2010
10:5181738#7
what i do not understand is how mr flight got elevated to the lords in the first place.
he had his safe seat taken awy from him 5 years ago over another outburst.
liked the joke from dave.
26 November 2010
15:3581750#8
Barry,
You seem to be missing the point. It does not matter a jot what profession Mr Flight is an expert in.
You and your party have an image problem. Rightly or wrongly, Mr Flights opinions are the perceived opinions of the conservative party, this has nothing to do with people who post on the forum, more to do with the expression of wealth as portrayed by your cabinet of millionaires, who obviously have not the slightest clue what it is like in the real world.
The very concept seems alien, a cabinet of millionaires trying to convince the rest of us that they are "working people" how ridiculous. Just what is the attraction?? they obviously do not do it for the money so what other motive can they have?? and please do not insult our intelligance by telling us that they do it because they care.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2010
15:5281754#9
Most people are not as small minded as you suggest Jimmy.
26 November 2010
16:3281757#10
A very forth right evasive answer again Barry??????
Well Barry I am asking you direct, why does the millionares club put there collective necks in the noose ???????
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2010
16:5481758#11
A stupid question that is not deserving of a sensible answer.
26 November 2010
17:0081759#12
Nerves jangling Barry??. Could it be that you cant give a sensible answer???
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2010
17:2081765#13
No Jimmy, perhaps you should ask why you cant ask a sensible one instead of demonstrating your personal class based bigotry.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
26 November 2010
17:4381768#14
barryw,thats the pot calling the kettle black isnt it.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2010
17:4981771#15
Hardly Jimmy. Class is meaningless to me as I have and do, mix in a very wide circle and, unlike some, have no need to feel in any way inferior or inadequate when with wealthy people, some of whom I advise on keeping and building their hard earned money.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
26 November 2010
17:5781772#16
thats the way to go barry.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
26 November 2010
18:2981780#17
I've been busy in the last couple of days so haven't been able to follow this too well in the media, but did see Ed Milliband on tv news last night being interviewed by some young people and they all said virtually the same as Howard Flight about some people on benefits who abuse the system while they are working hard for less. Milliband didn't really know what to say to them except a vague agreement.
Have any of the political commentators picked this up today?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
26 November 2010
18:3881783#18
the other important issue is the credibility of mr cameron, with all mr flights background of gaffs mr cmeron still appointed him to the lords
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
26 November 2010
19:2381792#19
Barry, I shall desist from asking you to explain your parties stance on class.
I fear you are making the mistake of thinking that I am personally attacking you, this is not the case
If you feel so sensitive about questions on the forum, then do what I am now doing and refusing to answer any more. I expect you are familiar with the phrase,"When you are in a big hole. stop digging"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 November 2010
19:3281794#20
ray
that is not the issue, mr flight made reference to the better off, not about less well off people taking home more than benefit claimants.
boy dave picked up also on the tone of the comments, mr flight clearly had concerns that the lower orders would breed faster than the well off.