Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
#1
Kentish Gazette Dec 14 1821 back page col.4
Parish officers of Maidstone having received information that several persons who receive parochial relief, were in the habit of spending a considerable portion of that relief in public houses, went around the town on Thursday evening last. At one or two houses they found some individuals dissipating in tippling, the money they had so received from the funds furnished by the industrious part of the community, and proper notice will be taken of the conduct of men who thus prove themselves to be such unworthy objects of the public charity.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#2
Ah, the concept of the Undeserving Poor. Guaranteed to send the hand-wringers into paroxysms of self-righteousness.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#3
you're a hard man blue peter, what chance would the horny handed sons of toil have against the charms of the buxom wenches serving up pints of foaming porter at ye olde eight bells?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#4
How many young men received a shilling in a pub, to wake up the next day on board a RN ship?
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#5
Peter's point is well made, The Eight Bells is full of people drinking and smoking whilst living in poverty.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
#6
David.
To put that into a proper perspective, whilst I agree with you and Peter, even if the 8bells was full(doubtful), it still would not amount to more than 1%, that are not boozing away their benefits.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#7
You might be right Gary obviously I don't know the %. Its just the welfare state was introduced as a safety net not a lifestyle choice.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#8
I received news of an interesting report in the (e)mail today from The Rowantree Foundation.
Poverty, participation and choice
The report expands upon the work of Peter Townsend, the famous British sociologist who died in 2009, who demonstrated that poverty prevents people being full members of society.
This new publication explores the relevance of Townsend's ideas in the 21st century.
Among other things it found that...
- " Participation in society can be measured in terms of social relationships, membership of organisations, trust in other people, ownership of possessions and purchase of services. All are lower among people with low incomes."
And concluded...
-"
Understanding difference
As Townsend demonstrated 30 or more years ago, people in poverty are unable to engage fully in society; they experience material deprivation, socialise less and are less trusting than people with greater resources. However, while participation declines as income falls, there appears to be a point in the income distribution at which participation stops falling, creating a participation 'floor'. The participation floor affects the 30 per cent of people with the lowest incomes, but varies in its level: it is lower for people who are reliant on social security benefits than for others on the same income. For the people affected by the floor, higher income is not reflected in measureable improvements in living standards or increased social participation, but seems instead to be used to sustain material and social existence. People confront circumstances in which nothing appears to be gained from additional income; a 'nothing for something' rather than a 'something for nothing' society."
From #1, we may draw the conclusion that non-participation with, and society with, others in the community was insisted upon way back in those dark days.
http://www.jrf.org.uk/publications/poverty-participation-and-choice?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weekly+publications+and+blogs+wb+27th+May+2013&utm_content=Weekly+publications+and+blogs+wb+27th+May+2013+CID_e6fc67229e7e4b434f832af9029232ff&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Poverty%20participation%20and%20choiceIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#9
There has always been a small minority of people who abuse the benefit system and always will be as shown by Kath's post regarding the abusers from 1821.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#10
Methinks the world is as yet viewed through the wrong end of the telescope.
Benefits, small minorities, hard working taxpayers bla, bla, bla.
A - quite high, fairy high, too high - level of unemployment has been sustained for centuries, from before the industrial revolution even.
For no better reason than to keep wages down, and to create a climate where people are made to feel obligated to their employer (an entirely one-way-street).
This in turn keeps all possible squabbles between the badly-off and the even worse-off and the whole passively beholden to the few.
You can take the 'h' out of pheasant easier than you can put the 'h' into tinker.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#11
i think we have to remember that back in 1821 there were no smart phones, i pads or sky sports to subscribe to so those chaps had no choice but to spend their dosh in the tavern.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
#12
David.
Neither is being disabled a lifestyle choice.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#13
What an odd thing to say
Guest 756- Registered: 6 Jun 2012
- Posts: 727
#14
Strange how no-one ever condems the high class phead, seems thats ok for them to spend their money however they like.
Where would our brothels be without the upper perverted classes after all. But I guess they just see it as providing work for the less educated! Nothing changes.
Rant over.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
#15
David.
"The Eight Bells is full of people drinking and smoking whilst living in poverty"
Do only people living in poverty drink in the Eight Bells?
I find it odd that the benefit system is condemned because 1% of claimants abuse the system.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
#16
PARISH RELIEF refused to those who keep a dog or fighting cock !
Cinque Ports Herald 25 Mar 1826 p.3 col.4 Hint to Overseers : Thursday a pauper of Sutton in Ashfield applied to the sitting magistrate at Mansfield for relief; and on the Overseer being called to show cause stated that this man kept a dog and fighting cock; upon which the justices instantly dismissed the complaint, observing, that the Overseer had acted very properly. By law, no person is entitled to parochial relief who keeps a dog or fighting cock.
(a friend told me the other day that someone she knew was always in debt and struggling, but she kept three dogs !)
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
#17
# 7......David this is the correct %.......
.``I find it odd that the benefit system is condemned because 1% of claimants abuse the system.``
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#18
taking 16 to its proper conclusion i think i know a way of getting shot of the cat now, will be down the soup kitchen tonight when it opens.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#19
Have you heard the rumour
that's buzzing around town
it near put me in a stupor
spine a-tingling up and down
him that had the you-know-what
well he suffers now no more
and her, and 'it' she's always at
she's forgotten what its for
and him that wears the gaiters
and the other one in clogs
they're both reformed craters
I tell you,
the country's going to the dogs
We'll have to stop meeting
if things carry on this way
just nod and friendly greeting
we'll have nothing else to say
it'll finish off our community
our culture will fade to nowt
an outbreak of social unity
and the light of life goes out
thank heaven tho' for Politics
without it we'd all be lost
I know it has its critics
and then,
of course there is the cost...
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#20
GaryC wrote:David.
"The Eight Bells is full of people drinking and smoking whilst living in poverty"
Do only people living in poverty drink in the Eight Bells?
I find it odd that the benefit system is condemned because 1% of claimants abuse the system.
Gary, why did you bring the disabled into the equation?
I have never said ALL claimants are "at it", I have never said everybody in the 8 Bells is unemployed.
Kath raises a good point that almost 200 years ago there people abusing the system and still do. My whole point is that when the welfare state was introduced it bore no resemblance to what it is today.