howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
barry is still in the 70's as far as political slogans martin.
everyone has to have a label, just waiting for him to do the test that ray set.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Indeed Howard.
I ask anyone who supports any of the three mainstream parties (excluding the respect or green party for obvious reasons) just where is the growth going to come from?
Where?
What plans are there to boost exports? Manufacturing? Whatever?
Manufacturing is a definite no-no as I've said earlier energy bills are set to soar. It would be a very stupid owner of a company who manufactures anything in the UK to invest here on any large scale knowing this. This is why companies such as Dyson build overseas, for example.
So bearing in mind the fact that our air capacity is set to reach it's limit causing our hub status to be circumvented to other capitals, our energy crunch and high costs in the future, our obsession with telling the world about a non existent problem to which they don't care much for anyway where is growth going to come from?
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
any of you lefties stand up now!!!!!
lets be having you !!!!
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
The truth is that 100's of thousands of people, possibly millions, don't have a pot to pee in.
Cost of living is going up, when jobs, wages, pensions, benefits are all going down.
You don't have to be an expert to work out the mathematics of the disaster that lies ahead.
No I don't have the answers, my past ones have been ignored, so I can't be bothered any more.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
post 25
only barryw/david little and in part roger cant see the light
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
thats because no ones put a 50p in the meter.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The disaster is now brought about by incompetent government fiscal management with too much taxation bleeding the life out of an economy struggling under a burden of excessive government spending with too many people allowed to rot their lazy backsides on benefits.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
barryw
the benefits sstem needs sorting that part i will agree on
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
1% of Britain's population owns 25% of the Country's financial wealth: this just about explains it all!
We must continue asking the Government for a Wealth Redistribution Law.
By the way, the super-rich won't be taking "their wealth" anywhere, because many countries will do the same, so as soon as the super-rich land in an airport with briefcases full of paper shares, hedge-funds, bonds bunds and the whole gobbledegook, the authorities there will send the stuff back to the country of origin.
It's just a question of when we get this Law, not if.
As said, the super-rich ain't going anywhere, we're all in this together.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Power firms paid out £7billion to shareholders while bills for ordinary customers have rocketing.
20 banks being investigated, £Trillion's made in systematic fraud.
The Association of Directors of Adult Social Services (Adass) showed that in the past two years social care budgets had lost £1.89bn in funding, at a time when pressure from rising numbers of older and disabled adults continues to grow at 3% per year.
Core service cuts, cuts to youth project's, cuts to adult social care staff, 416 reported public sector cuts.
Put all that above, alongside below:-
Rich landowners paid millions in farming subsidies
'Honest farmers suffer'
The data from England, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland shows that 889 landowners received more than £250,000. Of those, 133 were given more than £500,000 and 47 of those were given more than £1m in subsidy.
Jack Thurston, who campaigns for reforms to the Common Agriculture Policy's subsidy, said: "These are very wealthy people and if we're in the business of handing out public money to farmers because they're poor, these are not the kind of people that we'd be handing that money to."
Mr Thurston said the system is flawed because it rewards large landowners based on the number of hectares they own, not on financial need.
BarryW
"economy struggling under a burden of excessive government spending with too many people allowed to rot their lazy backsides on benefits".
The same can be said for some "lazy idle rich" living like parasites off the back of honest genuine hard working people, who deserve better.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Barry:
"economy struggling under a burden of excessive government spending with too many people allowed to rot their lazy backsides on benefits".
There are a couple of examples I could think of: one family member living off benefits is said to have a personal asset baggage of £300 million.
Receives EU subsidies for a big estate and heaps of money from the State.
Has offspring travelling around the Americas when they are not living in palaces.
All at State expense. They usually receive quick promotions to boot.
For two consecutive years they've also knocked an estimated 0.5% hole in the GDP (gross domestic product).
Some say our double dip recession is a direct result of it.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Gary and Alex - the problem is that nothing you mention is causing the current financial problems and your attitudes will only deepen these problems causing capital flight and massive unemployment.
It is easy to find things to whinge about, that don't suite you but getting to the very core of the country's problems is another matter. You are too concerned with irrelevancies, spurred by a dose of socialist envy.
Think for a minute. Why should the power firms not pay out dividends to those who own them? After all these happen to be to the larger extent our pension funds and ISA funds so we are benefiting and they also need to attract more capital investment. It is a decent dividend level that make such firms a good investment, these firm do not attract 'growth' investors, I can tell you that from a professional angle.
Farmers are paid subsidies as part of CAP. I am no fan of CAP but it is a policy developed by the EU originally to ensure secure foods supplies and extended to preserve wildlife and the countryside. Laudable aims.
Gary your old 70's class war attitudes were out of date then.
I am all for the 'honest hard working people' and I want their taxes cut and more money in their pockets.
My problem is with the scrounging layabouts living on benefits who should be getting off their backsides. Benefits should be a short term safety net only to help people get over a bad period in their lives but now it is a lifestyle choice for too many.
We have a problem caused by excessive government spending placing a massive burden on businesses, particularly small businesses added to by excessive red tape that strangles enterprise. This is made worse by our major export market struggling under an ill-conceived currency union. Together this is what is creating a double dip recession, something I warned about at the start of the first dip years ago.
Gary - the simple fact is that every measure needed to correct this are those that people like you, trade unionists and big government acolytes will hate. It is your kind of thinking here and abroad, enacted as government policy, that is causing the problems we have.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Barry, you consistent, I'll give you that, but the line between consistent and a Tourette-like mono-babble is very fine indeed.
That the push, over the last thirty years or so, from manufacturing into servicing has suited you down to the ground is plain, after all it is an ill-wind that does nor blow somebody some good, and while the main concern is you, and you (and your like) exclusively, your mono-babble is understandable, sad, but understandable.
Unemployment has long been a tool to smooth-out the course of business, businesses with but short term aims especially.
What you say about it has changed little over the centuries, (since the time of Magna Carta, dare I say). The people you admire, the kind of people you wish to be associated closely with, felt hard-done-by even then, even if the land-owners could tax the 'bejesus' from their tenants these same overlords in turn were required to yield payments to the Crown. And their struggle goes on, driven by the likes of you, to be able to arrange the affairs of lesser mortals without the requirement to pay to, without the least notion of fealty to, a greater being - a greater good.
It is truely a wonder that in post-industrial Britain any notion of responsibility for the welfare of ones fellow man gained political-purchase, but it did. I appreciate that this fact galls you and your like even now, but I am not the least impressed.
I know that your craving for total control, until recently, suffered set-back after set-back. In the main because of the utter inconvenience of 'Democracy' and even now when you have the New Labour Party on-side and could have seen your ends pandered to whichever of the big-two partys gained power, but sadly the populace in general and the Electorate in particular refuses to play ball.
It is your setting of your countenance against the least notion of Democracy that condemns you to your paucity of commentary. I may have mentioned this before, but you remind me of the closing scene of Brighton Rock:the scratched record that you can rely upon, without recourse to the actuality.
Of course you will appreciate that this does not paint you into the character of 'Pinky', but rather the love-struck girl, the victim of her own desires and skewed world-view...
[URL][/URL]
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
going off at a tangent "brighton rock" never got a mention in our favourite film thread.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Business Leaders challenge Cameron and Osborne saying they are failing to deliver
on their `pledges`on growth.They are forecasting a deeper 0.4 % contraction.
CBI are expecting the government will have to `borrow` £ 137.2 billion in 2012 /
2013 as weak growth takes it`s toll on Tax receipts.It the largest `double dip` since
the second world war.
CBI Director-General says we need to be `Churchillian`on the economy and adopt his
``Action this Day``attitude.
It is no good this government announcing growth initiatives when the Businesses
and the Public see `No Action`and tells the government need to get some Polical
Backbone and show leadership...........
It is of concern Osborne has failed to meet one of his Key Targets.....he has already
had to postpone by `Two Years` of wiping the structural `deficit` within a rolling five
year time-frame......
.....and looks like missing another of his Key Target pledges of seeing the National
`Debt` falling by 2015 / 2016.
CBI and BCC state the government needs to kick start our economic growth by
investing in the infrastructure and act quickly and radically to introduce short term
``stimulus``and `long term `policies for growth...........
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
Your arrogance is nothing short of insulting and your last post proves you do not have any idea what is going on around you.
Gary and Alex - the problem is that nothing you mention is causing the current financial problems and your attitudes will only deepen these problems causing capital flight and massive unemployment.
Captital Flight is exactly what is happening now and that is because of this governments policies.
It is easy to find things to whinge about, that don't suite you but getting to the very core of the country's problems is another matter. You are too concerned with irrelevancies, spurred by a dose of socialist envy.
Core service cuts, cuts to youth projects, cuts to adult social care staff, 416 reported public sector cuts.
These might not be irrelevant to you, more is the pity, and this is where your sheer arrogance shines through.
Think for a minute. Why should the power firms not pay out dividends to those who own them? After all these happen to be to the larger extent our pension funds and ISA funds so we are benefiting and they also need to attract more capital investment. It is a decent dividend level that make such firms a good investment, these firm do not attract 'growth' investors, I can tell you that from a professional angle.
You think for a minute. Power firms paid out £7billion to shareholders while bills for ordinary customers have rocketing. Pensions decreasing so we are NOT benefiting. No capital investment IS being invested. British Gas investing £500 Billion on producing clean coal, creating jobs and attracting growth investors in Australia, NOT here.
Farmers are paid subsidies as part of CAP. I am no fan of CAP but it is a policy developed by the EU originally to ensure secure foods supplies and extended to preserve wildlife and the countryside. Laudable aims.
EU money that should be going to struggling farmers to help produce cheaper food for our consumers is going to landowners who have large amounts of hectares that produce nothing, not food, or preserving wildlife. That's not laudable not even laughable.
Gary your old 70's class war attitudes were out of date then.
If your arrogance allowed you to, you would have read my feelings on the unions ruining this country in the 70's They were obsessed with power and blind, to the damage they were causing to the ordinary people of this country, just like you are doing today, you are no better than they were.
I am all for the 'honest hard working people' and I want their taxes cut and more money in their pockets.
Wake up and smell the coffee, massive un-employment, unscrupulous agencies ripping off those "honest hard working people" part-time or nil hour contracts are now the norm, not full time employment. Your obsession with taxes is a farce.
My problem is with the scrounging layabouts living on benefits who should be getting off their backsides. Benefits should be a short term safety net only to help people get over a bad period in their lives but now it is a lifestyle choice for too many.
As repeated many many times, we ALL agree this statement but if this was successfully achieved, it would make no real difference to the country deficit and you know that, which makes it just a pet hate to you, a little personal crusade of yours. Stopping all the real fraud being carried out by banks and big business, WOULD make a difference to our deficit but you think most of these are people to be admired.
We have a problem caused by excessive government spending placing a massive burden on businesses, particularly small businesses added to by excessive red tape that strangles enterprise. This is made worse by our major export market struggling under an ill-conceived currency union. Together this is what is creating a double dip recession, something I warned about at the start of the first dip years ago.
Yes it is excessive government spending, amongst many other things and this government is as bad or worse, than all the others gone before it.
Gary - the simple fact is that every measure needed to correct this are those that people like you, trade unionists and big government acolytes will hate. It is your kind of thinking here and abroad, enacted as government policy, that is causing the problems we have.
My kind of thinking has nothing to do with trade unions, politics, policies or any other of your claptrap nonsense.
What I want IS a simple fact. I want business's to be successful, making themselves and their shareholders rich, who in turn will employ lots of people, with full time employment, on a decent living wage. The rich would be happy and the workers would not give a toss about them.
Tell me BarryW, you don't really believe I "envy you" do you?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
perplexed me and i suspect many others gary, seems to be a mixture of barry's post and your comments - no way of working out which is which though.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Once again Gary you go and personalise your attacks on me while my attack was on what you say and the attitudes expressed in your posting.
Your post makes no sense at all, as Howard says. You mentioned pensions, if you want a lesson on what is affecting pensions both in the accumulation stage (mostly where the benefits I refer to apply) and the distribution stage then I can do so as I deal with it all the time. Arrogance, no, professional knowledge.
Envy me? Well there you go again, personalisation.... No, I do not and really do not care who it is you envy but that is how you come across as if you are an old fashioned head-in-the-sand trade unionist of the worse type. You may not be like that in real life but that is certainly how I see you from the forum. I detested such attitudes in the 70's when I was a member of a trade union myself (reluctantly).
If you really want businesses to be successful then you should listen to what is making life difficult for them and support those things that will help them be a success. Only with a successful business sector can the wealth be gained to pay for public services and support those who really need it while also providing jobs and decent wages. Business has to come first if you want the benefits.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Gary - very clear post there highlighting your responses to Barry's post point by point.
My own view is the CAP got corrupted a long time and those in power knew it but chose to avoid reforming it. The answer is a to support farmers via some form of minimum farm gate income scheme which would ensure the poorest farmers benefit the most and the farming corporations etc get little or nothing. There should also be a continuation of payments to reinstate hedgerows, set aside areas for wildlife conservation etc.
Whilst it is right that many pensions hold shares in utility companies and the dividends paid out by these companies help maintain pensions, it is also true that many pensioners are seeing an increasing erosion of the purchasing power of their pension in payment at a time when basic necessities such as power are rocketing - this is a circle that cannot be squared by dividend payments. We desperately need to find a way to ensure that the poorest in our society are able to fulfil the basic needs of shelter, heat/power and sustenance and to a standard that reflects our society in the best way.
As for "benefit scroungers" of course this is an issue and at its most basic it is theft - taking something that you are not entitled to. BUT it is also an issue that all those "TAX THIEVES" withhold something that society is entitled to (i.e.take something they are not entitled to).
From the early 1980's on there is ample evidence that every £ spent by HMG on pursuing tax evasion generates between 3 and 4 times the level of recoveries that each £ spent on benefits fraud investigations does. This of course is not to say we shouldnt pursue both.
Obviously the way to solve this is to radically reform and simplify the tax code and the benefits system but no government has ever wanted to do both - wonder why?
It is time we stopped scapegoating people and started all being honest about this issue, the Blue Book is clear that well in excess of 50% of the Benefit and welfare budget goes on pensions. There are however other areas of state expenditure that dwarf the welfare and benefits budget, frankly if the government is going to apply a haircut to state spending it should do so across the board.
So lets see government leading by example and cutting their own wages, allowances and expenses by say 10% (including of course the wages they earn from their directorships, consultancies etc.) then roll that out across their departmental budgets.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
