Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Paul #14
Roger #16
Could we organise a meeting sometime next week, I think it is important for us to get together for a chat?
You could email me on
betteshangerheritage@sky.com ?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Sorry Gary really can't at the moment, so overwhelmed with work and needing to feed back on the Western Heights development plans for a couple of meetings next week
If you can send me some details (e-mail on my profile) I will pass to the rest of the committee and see if someone else can discuss with you
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Post 5 "The White Cliffs are iconic the world over.."
So, when it suits, it's the White Cliffs. But try mentioning that the urban development sites of CGI are ON (not behind or somewhere else) the White Cliffs of Dover, then it doesn't suit!!!
Now let me see: the commissar showed three fingers and said "how many fingers can you see?" (The answer is four).
The reply came: "Three".
At which the commissar pulled his ear, and then in a benevolent manner tried to explain away that the answer is FOUR.
Interesting to see how the Western Heights are part of the White Cliffs to back one plan, and are NOT the White Cliffs when spinning off another plan.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
"Pot calling the kettle black" springs to mind.....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
On the White Cliffs, by the White Cliffs, in the White Cliffs, under the White Cliffs..... why does it matter. In a few tens of thousands years they will somewhere near Barham and Dover will be long gone !!!!!!!!!
The most important thing for me (and many people) is that the memorial would look out over the English Channel between Dover/Follkestone and the Continent. Hundred of thousands of people passed accross that stretch of water and never returned.
Surely that is fitting enough?
Been nice knowing you :)
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Judith Roberts- Registered: 15 May 2012
- Posts: 637
You are absolutely right Paul. Most families will have had family members who made that journey and even if they did come back their lifes were changed forever. It is a very appropriate place and a beautiful place to build a memorable that will last for centuries if not tens of thousands of years.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
What about the many sailors and soldiers who set sail before the First World War and didn't come back? Why do these people not count in a memorial in Dover?
Answers and explanations welcome
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
The point of the memorial is to recognise those who died in the twentieth century's two world wars, which were different from other conflicts due to the sheer scale of the slaughter. It's design is the clearest method possible of demonstrating this. This memorial is long overdue, and has to be built somewhere. It is an honour for Dover that this town would be considered a suitable site. Out of interest Alex, are you in favour of this memorial of not?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
No, I'm not. We have - all towns and parishes have - local memorials for fallen service members, in particular for those of the two WWs, and to a far lesser extent for those of previous wars (although the latter half of the 19th century is well represented in local memorials inside some churches).
The proposed WW memorial, furthermore, has been presented as a means of attracting wealth to Dover, by way of visitors - shops/restaurants etc., which I find in itself unbecoming for a memorial, which should be free of lucre.
And such memorial, if it were to attract even a fraction of the proposed masses of people from all over Britain and the Commonwealth, would utterly scar the area - a nature reserve among other categories of protection - with traffic and pollution, altering and changing its current peaceful nature.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Do you have a Christian name, or are you Mr. Wood?
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
My name is Stuart. Sorry, I know my username is a little ambiguous.
You are right that there are many local war memorials all over the country, mostly covering the two world wars. The difference here is it is not a local memorial, it's a national one. I too agree that a memorial shouldn't be built to be a tourist attraction, but clearly that isn't the purpose here. If people are drawn to the town, that's a positive side effect.
The reason I like the idea of this memorial, in it's current form, is that being faced with 1.7M names is almost unimaginable. Virtually anyone born now will know someone who served in WW2, but in fifty years time we will have a generation who's only understanding of the world wars comes from books. The problem with books is it is almost impossible for them to give a true scale of the horrors of the 20th century. Unfortunately, people will forget. This memorial will prevent that ever happening.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I see your point, Stuart, however, I know the names of my great grand fathers going back many generations. A number of them served at Dover in the 1800s, maintaining the Fleet or as merchant navy sailors.
I resent not seeing a memorial to the sailors of Britain who crossed the seas over the centuries. I recently saw on a document one great granddad of mine inhabiting Dover in the 1500s, and I reckon he too sailed the seas.
So this brings me back to my original question: why are so many Dovorians from times past excluded from a memorial, even though they worked for, or on, the Fleets of Britannia?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
alex #28 of course they willbe on there ww1 was before ww2 etc.but there again how far do you want to go back to,agincore springs to mind,along with the boer and zulu wars.forgive me if i missed a few.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Maybe Dover is the wrong Town for you then Alexander. You don't seem to want any regeneration or improvement here. Leaving everything as it is, will, in reality, mean we are going backwards, with everywhere else moving forward.
No Town can afford to stand still, especially NOT Dover; we have great potential, we must realise it.
Gary, I'll send you an email.
Roger
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Been nice knowing you :)
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
Very well put Roger, the Dover area must not be allowed to stagnate.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Alex.
I posted on the other Dover Memorial thread, how difficult it is, in creating any memorial whilst being fair to everyone, it is extremely hard.
You should try it or at least get involved and then you might realise.
My father, grandfathers, many uncles and cousins have died and more will die because of working at our pits.
None of them are on our Miners Memorial Plaque, but that does not mean they are being forgotten or left out.
I am trying to get funding for a memorial garden, whereby people like myself, could place something in it, to commemorate loved ones.
Miners from all over the country who visit Dover/Deal area and see a monument to our fallen miners, are pleased and proud, that a monument has been placed for other people, visitors, to remember them.
Veterans from all conflicts, from all over the UK and beyond, will do the same for the Western Heights War Memorial.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Alex, the proposed memorial was conceived and designed to be a fitting national memorial to the many who lost their lives defending our freedoms in two world wars. Dover has always been the most appropriate place for it. In the realities of the modern world when proposing such a memorial you have to say how it will impact on the local economy and infrastructure.
Should we ignore the many benefits it will bring the town and just do nothing, leave the town as somewhere to walk the dog while on the way elsewhere? It has to be asked, is there anything forward thinking that you do approve of?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
