Indeed - I just think we are in danger of seeing only the religious as bigoted when that is far from the truth.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I am an atheist but I find the militant atheists as bad as any religious fanatics.
There is no harm at all in respecting any tradition of a prayer before a meeting.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
twice in one day we are in full agreement barry, excuse me while i take a tranquiliser.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
As a humanist I struggle with all this pro & anti religion/atheism stuff - frankly I am happy for each and every one of you to follow the god or non-god of your choice in whichever way you so desire, provided you do not inflict it upon me or anyone else. Belief systems should remain a private affair and should not be part of civic life or its rituals, customs or practices.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well this thread is certainly bringing in some strong views
In past years on the District council there were prayers before the council meeting(since tAken off agenda)
in the chamber there was a mix of christians, non believers, humanists, not sure's
those that didnt wish to take part could leave the chamber, returning once the prayers had finished.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
good point keith those who didn't wish to take psrt had the option of leaving the chamber.
we all accept that if we go to a wedding, christening, funeral etc we just go along with things.
in the past 12 months some of us have been to funerals of 3 forum members and the renewal of vows for another.
out of respect to them we all just basically take part.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Ross, how can one determine that the Faith should not be part of civic life?
Is this not banning and interdicting civil liberties?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
alex,time and place for everything,but only in moderation.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
I am with Ross on this one, nobody should have the right to inflict their religious views on me or anyone else.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALEXANDER;
I think maybe you need to review your own view point.
you are obviously a practicing christian and of course that is your right, what a number of posters are saying(and i agree) theres no problem in having any kind od service before meetings if thats the wish, but it should be for those that wish to go down that road.
it should not be imposed on people.
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Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Alexander I respect your right to worship your God of choice whomsoever/whatsoever that may be
Respect my right that I do not wish to worship/follow what I perceive to be a superstition nor have it inflicted upon me
Oh and before you bang on about tradition la de da - I have no problem with the reality that our legal system is predicated on judeo-christian traditions, though it is now firmly dosed with huge amounts of secularism; nor our system of monarchy; though in the case of the latter as a republican I would be happy to see an end to that too.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ross;
did i not just say that lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Ross, the idea is, prayers before a civic function needn't be attended by those who wish to abstain, which should accommodate the feelings of Christians and non-believers.
As for the monarchy, there is a grey area to be taken into consideration. Traditionally the house of Windsor's representative sitting on the throne has the legal duty to uphold the established English Faith as expressed by the Anglican Church.
And also to safeguard British Sovereignty at governmental level.
Personally I believe the house of Windsor has failed these two prerogatives.
I don't consider myself a republican as I believe in the Celestial Monarchy, but in no way would you have any faith or religious belief inflicted on you once Christian prayers are fully reintroduced into civic functions.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Surely you see the contradiction in your last sentence?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ross
im with you on this one
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Howard has made a very good and sadly ignored point: when we go to funerals, weddings, remembrance day celebrations, we accept that, whatever our own beliefs, those ceremonies have value even for those without beliefs. We would not seek to ban people from using those buildings and ceremonies if we felt they did not believe sufficiently, and we would not boycott them if we had different beliefs.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
That is true Bern but those events are "personal" life events, except remembrance services - and even then it is about respect.
mixing religion and civic functions is totally different
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
That brings us back to base 1, Ross: Stalin forbade religion in civic functions.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALEXANDER;
Which brings us back to the originl postings from ross and others,
yes by all means lets have the services for those that wish to attend, but have inbuilt that its a voluntary thing
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