Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
I know I shouldn't. From 72% to 54% in ten years, where will it stand in another 10 years? There are places of worship for religious devotions and there are places of work. Keeping the two separate does not infringe on anyone's right to worship any god they choose but it does allow those of differing opinions to work together towards common goals.
I'm out of here.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris, no-one said you have to leave the Town Council, so come back!
We just want to say prayers at the start of each meeting.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Having said that, Chris, I'd propose that Dover Town Council receive the church building opposite, the one whose roof burned off, and that this be used as a place of prayer before meetings and on other solemn occasions.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
alex,uf you are that worried about prayers why dont you go the to the disconted book shop in the town [the works shop] get a license from the council and start praying outside the dtc offices.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the church that alex refers to is being refurbished at present so that up market flats can result, much the same as the original plan.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
I have this image of Chris declaring himself a Jedi Knight and demanding to wave his light sabre around at the start of every council meeting
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
and alex dressed up as a crusader cutting him down mercilessly in order to give the unbelievers a "good sorting out".
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
That should up the public attendance figures!
Guest 720- Registered: 20 Jul 2011
- Posts: 114
Surely if you are religious, your faith affects every aspect of your life, work, play, family, home, relationships, etc. So why should they be separate, Chris?
I hear you - it is a bit like asking a nun to dress in civvies just because she is in a public place.....?"!
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Jim, I am sure that for a lot of religious people their faith does affect most aspects of their lives but not everyone is religious. For some it is an expression of who they are, for some an idea of what they think the country should be. For others it is a weekly habit or tag they use to describe themselves and for a growing number it is, at best, an irrelevance. I never suggested that anyone should give up their faith or hide it, only that they should not put it in everyone else's faces. A council is a secular body and, as the figures show, in an increasingly secular world this is how it should be. Were I to suggest that meetings should open with a reading from Darwin there would be outrage, why should prayers be any different?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Likewise those who disapprove of a thousand years of custom and practice should not aggressively foist their agenda upon the rest of us. I ask this regularly, but what has happened to tolerance?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris, are you sure a council in Britain is a secular body?
There is a grey area of understanding regards the British constitution, both in its written and non-written forms. Or let's say, to avoid a separate discussion on whether we have or not a constitution, a grey area in our equivalent to a constitution.
Leaving apart the Human Rights Act, and the oath of coronation, neither of which seem to be particularly popular as arguments on the Forum, Britain is not a secular state.
And town councils are not actually secular.
At least not Dover Town Council. Celebrations of various kinds attended by the Council are accompanied by church functions, and this in itself demonstrates that DDC is not secular.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
That last line should read DTC. God forbid! My sincere apologies to DDC
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
"A thousand years of custom and practice", you could have a whole long thread on why that is not a valid argument.
Let us talk about tolerance and compromise. Probably not as I never suggested scrapping the prayer thing or asking religious people to deny their faiths, rather a simple compromise to let everyone be happy. I should have expected that this would not keep Christians happy having read countless blogs etc in which, as soon as a Christian practice, 'tradition' or artifact is questioned, quickly degenerate into attacks or even death threats against Atheists. ( My favourite being the hilarious threats of "going to hell".......to Atheists). Times change but so often people don't.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Chris, you have always been a voice of reason on this, simply expressing a view. But there are some atheists or non-religious (may be different things) who are as rampant and violent as the Spanish Inquisition ever were and who will not, for a skinny minute, accept that there is ANY place for traditional rituals and religious rites in modern life, especially modern public life, and the danger is that the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater in an attempt to "include" these people and their anti-beliefs. It matters that we get it right.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
If legislators and courts would just resist the temptation to get involved in these matters the population will eventually get it right without their help.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i have read and heard some very unpleasant stuff from believers and non believers alike, sensible people do not get aggressive over what other people's beliefs are.
especially when it is impossible to know the real truth until we are 6 feet under.