howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
courtesy of the independent.
More than 2,000 four- and five-year-olds were excluded from school last year for committing acts of violence or disrupting lessons, according to figures published today.
The statistics add to growing evidence of poor and often violent behaviour creeping into the primary school classroom, with 89 children being excluded each day across the country as a result of assaults on either staff or other pupils.
Teachers' leaders blamed parents for failing to bring their children to school ready to learn, and allowing them access to violent computer games.
The figures, published by the Department for Education, show that 670 four-year-olds were excluded at least once in the school year 2010-11. In the case of five-year-olds, the figure was 1,470. Many of them were excluded at least twice over the course of the school year.
Boys were far more likely to be excluded than girls, the figures showed - 590 of the four-year-olds were boys, compared with just 80 girls.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
[thank you Howard, for copy & pasting]
4 & 5 year old? And not yet in control of their emotions?
Should we not be grateful that rioting in such places is so rare. Although it is difficult to quantify the incidence of 'unacceptable' behaviour without knowing the overall numbers of children in this tranche of eduction.
But, why Video-Games? Is there not a scene of riotous behaviour in Kindergarten Cop? St. Trinians...etc. etc.
Why the rush to corral children, to drag them from their parents (these so god-damn-awful parents?). Why not a parent & child environment, even in a school setting?
Surely those who proclaim, "spare the rod..." must realise the 'cause & effect', 'action & reward' aspect of human nature and see that a day off is hardly a punishment for the child.
With perhaps 30 children in the classes there could be a rota system of say 5 mothers present each day?
On the other hand...is beginning schooling at such an age the best practice?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
Tom raises some good suggestions there. As he says, excluding them from school is like a holiday !
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Sadly Kath, it is unlikely to be a holiday for those very children who are so excluded. It is, first and foremost, a punishment for their parents, but they could be more usefully punished by having them in as part of the class. Such children that are seen to be the problem are, more likely as not, from a household that can hardly wait for them to be dumped into the education system. For them then to be sent home again CANNOT help the situation.
I think we need to allow, nay encourage, children to be children and to experience a childhood. I am sure Nordic countries build-up families and communities before thrusting children into 'dole-fodder' education.
BTW
Once, during a lecture within my short experience at a primary-school-teacher training 'university'. We were shown the fruits of a recent visit by the lecturer to a primary school class, [the go-getting lecturer who could only have spent a year or two actually teaching before catching the lecturer bug]. There were photographs of perfectly ordinary inner-city kids...except one. He was "clearly troubled" as the whiz-kid lecturer acknowledged, but he and his plight was not to detain us.
I learned from a friend and fellow student that the school in question was local to her and the child lived across the street from her. Among other things this boy was known to have ready access to porn videos. All this known to the neighbours through their children, his class mates.
I could be angry that I did not do 'something', but here is the rub.
Is it not easier to get angry than to do 'something'?
The newspaper columnist will be angry.
The teachers will be angry.
The government will be angry.
The parents will be angry.
Where, oh where, do these bloody toddlers get the idea that getting angry solves anything?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that's all well and good tom but if a class is totally disrupted by the behaviour of just one child the school has no option than to exclude the disruptive one.
the parents of the normally behaved ones would be up in arms if their offspring were denied the chance to learn.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
"Where, oh where, do these bloody toddlers get the idea that getting angry solves anything?"
I guess, in many cases, from their parents!
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
sadly that seems to be the case and until there is a sea change in thinking by the minority of parents who make little effort in raising their children in the correct manner then nothing will change and exclusions will continue.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
I am sure part of the problem with SOME parents is that they have no idea how to control their little dears, the only time they have them for any length is at the weekends. During the week they are working either by choice or necessity with nurseries, child minders or the school looking after their children.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
the stick for the kids
And If you assault teachers you should get the cat ,at the school gates,
And the lesson for to day is ,behave and respect
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
you can be so wishywashy at times keith, take a leaf out of barry's book and simply execute the prodigal ones.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I do think that many of the young kids are troubled because of their family home-life; the parents are propbably angry (shouting and sweraring, maybe the odd bit of domestic violence etc.) with each other for a number of reasons and the kids think it is the only way to react - angrily and so the disruption goes on - and on.
Roger
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
I can't find any more recent statistics but in 2001 there were 5,487,098 pupils in primary education in the UK (you can expect that to have increased). 2000 pupils being disruptive does not seem enough to warrant a newspaper article. 89 a day must include 're-offenders' otherwise the total would be 16910. Lazy journalism.
Is the silly season upon us already? It can't be long until the wails of despair are heard as the exam results come in and television and radio channels are filled with inane programmes of the 'what to do now you've passed/failed' style.
Think I'll watch the Olympics!!
Guest 756- Registered: 6 Jun 2012
- Posts: 727
I'm sure if parents or guardians of children where made to accompany their child for a full days schooling, regardless of their work commitments, resulting in a day of lost finance or freedom, little mite, just may feel the wrath of the parent and be more inclinded to behave. After all, what child would relish the prospect of their "adult" going to school with them?
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
without a doubt there is a problem, but not all of it rests with parents unable to parent.
the bigger picture of powers taken away from the
police
school teachers
lack of disipline due to much do gooders
the list goes on
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
And what powers would you give back to police and teachers Keith??
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
It all comes down to respect. Children should be taught how to respect all others, not just adults, teachers etc, but their peers too. Until parents demand and get respect from their offspring BEFORE they start school there isn't much chance for them.
In a supermarket carpark the other day I witnessed a car pull into the disabled bays with two adult men and two young lads - about 9 or 10 I would think. The adults got out of the car and stood talking to a woman while the two lads got out of their car, urinated all over a disabled car and ran off laughing, as were the two adults - disgusting.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Disgusting it is Jacqui and the reason why we have so many problems. The adults/parents have no decency in them so are not good role-models; how are children to be brought up to be responsible, with adults like that guiding them ?
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
jacqui;
your example is one of many im sure that could be mentioned but there are a lot of good young children that never get a mention and we shouldnt ever forget that.
moving back to keith b post what would i doin fear of sounding like a tory here i go)
POLICE; Get the respect for the police back, whilst its all good to be part of the
communities, respect by the public(some of)for the police is at an all
time low, lots of kids know they can get away with things, as the system
allows this to happen.
big changes to allow the police to be feared by those wishing to break
the law.
TEACHERS; Of course teachers have also suffered under the system, powers
taken away from them, to many do gooders, where teachers have
to look over there shoulders all the time, terrified of compensation
claims, or disiplinary action.
of course i came from real bullying teachers with some realy bad
instances of abuse so there would need to be thingsin place to stop
abuse.
so i probably sound a bit toryish lol
but its not just the parents fault(although they have a role to play) the whole system is wrong.
prisons over full to bursting, so judges/authorities looking to release some
with this though means that convicted people have no where to be sent.
those youngsters continue to commit crime police arrest them take them to court they get community service, back to crime, arrested again convicted and round and round it goes.
so that might be a start keith b
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Keith an old liberal like your self waking up to the problem is warming my hart.
I advocate state law controlled violence, violence to prevent! Violence
1 police,
Police officers to carry side arms tazars and spry, similar to other EU counter's, this would give them the respect they need to do the job we send them out to do.
Imagine your son in uniform on the street of the UK unarmed.
2 schools
The teacher we have are frightened of the children, some of these kids are 6ft
We need security in schools so teachers can take back the class rooms.
They need the stick,
I have had the stick at school ,its good for you
Parents that threaten and attack teachers need hard punishment
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
at the rate of cuts to our thin blue line there will not be any police officers left by august 2014.