howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
of course it does keith. that does not explain why some teachers get better results with the same kids as others.
i have known many teachers, the majority were really lively keen types that lived for their work, sadly a minority were dull clueless people with no personality.
the latter irrespective of their education and great knowledge of clever things would be unlikely to control and/or inspire a class.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
With reference to your first statement: the previous point does explain why some young people get good results with lifeless teachers, which just raises my question again to Mr Gove: 'define results'.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
whose first statement dazza?
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Sorry Howard, yours. Just edited as you posted...realised it made no sense!
Saying that parenting should be a factor in assessing teachers performance is like saying that Prison Governors should be assessed on the kind of offences that were committed by their prisoners. It is what goes on inside that counts.......
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Factor no....................................fact of life.
Huh?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ditto, reg like to be over subtle at times.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
But that is exactly what is going on Bern.
I am a bit slow today.....what is going on? Teachers being judged by the behaviour of the kids? Silly at best - you can only work with what you have, and if you have a pigs ear it isn't going to be a silk purse however hard you try. But some pigs ears can transform if their parents shape up! Teachers who clean up those pigs ears and enable them to hear better should be proud of themselves - even better if the silk purse starts to show. Right - metaphor well and truly done to death...........
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
It's probably me Bern...sorry.
Using the metaphor, as I love them:
What we are currently seeing is Mr Gove encouraging those with pigs ears to achieve exactly the same as those with silk, in exactly the same way. If this is not achieved then a teacher/school is deemed to be failing.
It is of course possible to make silk purses from anything, but how you make the purse and type of purse made can be very different - although equally functional. Additionally sometimes it takes a while to realise what you have got to make the purse with, sometimes the material doesn't even know itself.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
not as i read it darren, failing schools is a different issue to failing teachers.
a sensible head teacher would take into account the abilities of the class the teacher takes.
should anyone want a michael gove feel free to contact me for a price list.
It matters that we are clear. I don't have a problem with teachers - any worker - who has been offered opportunities to upskill and yet remains under performing being allowed to go. That is different to schools and teachers being judged on the ability of their material, the children.
PS - love the use of the metaphor!!
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
The descriptors are fast becoming the same Howard. Part of the reason the teaching unions currently are up in arms...not just the pensions as reported.
I would happily expand on this, but feel I may 'just go on' indefinitely. Teachers need to go if they cannot do the job. What is in question (something the government fails to see) is that the way of assessing success is seen to be good exam results, not good teaching or a good education. It is the inability to differentiate between these that is the problem. All 3 are intrinsically linked and all very important, but they not exactly the same thing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
teaching children to pass exams seems to be the modern day ethos, exam results improving year on year show this.
the education side doesn't seem so important, employers continually bemoan the quality of job applicants despite them having top qualifications.
i don't think we will ever go back though, goverments like to take the credit for exam passes.
Don't get me started........education is so much more than exams and academia. The opportunity to think differently, explore alternative outlooks, develop communication skills and social skills. Judging "success" on how many relatively worthless A*s can be jotted on a bit of paper is trivialising to say the least.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Too true.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 14....Simply said Parenting qualities had an effect on our childrens education.................
....it did not say a teachers career should depend on it.....................but people will read what they want to read and
hear what they want to hear.