howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
a lot of criticism of michael gove here but i think he has got it right.
everybody else gets a months notice if not up to standard in their work. i also agree with schools sharing information so that bad teachers do not get recycled.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teachers-criticise-oneterm-sack-plan-6289108.htmlJan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
I think the following quote from Russell Hobby of the National Association of Head Teachers just about sums it up.
"For those who are clearly unsuited to teaching, it is in everyone's interests - not just of pupils but of the profession's reputation - that, after a fair process, they should be helped to pursue their career elsewhere."
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I agree, why do we want people teaching that are not committed or competent. As long as the process is fair this is a good thing.
After all it is a fairly tough to hold the attention of young people....
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that was cruel, children do not deserve to be subjected to michael gove in speech mode.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i dunno howard,as long as its educatunal.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Horses for courses. Teachers can only inspire pupils if they are free to be themselves and instil kids with a thirst for learning. A teacher who would be great in a country prep school might sink fast in an inner city comprehensive, and vice versa.
But teachers can't be saddled with all the blame for pupils who fail.
Many kids have no respect for authority. Even worse, neither do their parents.
In many countries there are compulsory exams at the end of each school year. Kids who fail get extra coaching for a re-sit but if they fail again, they stay down in the previous year. Doesn't half concentrate the mind.
Of course in modern Britain, failure is not allowed.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
of course teachers can only work with the raw material provided by parents, some of whom have instilled no discipline on their offspring.
having said that there are teachers that have good track records and the respect of their pupils, it is unfair that they have colleagues there for an easy ride.
this happens in all jobs and the deadwood get sorted eventually, the same should apply to teachers.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
wow;
now lets get behind this latest issue.
when mr gove was questioned closely on how this would be come about, and would teachers who dont get resuls be dismissed he said yes.
I think we have to be a little bit careful here, whilst we all would want to be rid of teachers not up to the job, failing schools/pupils could be for a number of reasons and some not the fault of the teacher.
on a seperate postings i did state in my visits to schools there was many schools that did do well and often those that didnt failed to do so because of poor teachers
but teachers like many other agencies often have there hands tied as to what they can/cant do.
although going back to the days of heavy disipline(which in some cases became serious abuse) we dont want to return to, we do need teachers to be able to teach and disipline where required in a reasonable way.
it has been said that there are also problems for teachers to deal with such poor parenting, lack of resources, poor disipline etc etc that often don't help a teacher to get the results required.
to give you a few examples;
i visited the schools across folkestone and often it would be the fault of teachers unable for whatever reason to install disipline i often found myself doing there job to!!
but then i visited the academy primary school in folkestone, whrere all the children are p;olite, open doors for you, the teachers are in full control, children say please and thank you, so even today it can be done.
but then in other schools parents unable to be parents blaming the schools for all little charlies failings so much so i have had to seperate irate parents in very run down areas who got carried away with the blame.
not able to accept that maybe there lack of parenting skills may go some way to being part of the problem.
this same parent (we was at and end of year play by the children) didn't watch any part of the play instead choose to talk to the person next to her throughout
and her child was looking out for a bit of encouragement from the mum but got none.
anyway theres a few thoughts there to be going on with
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Unusually for me I watched breakfast tv Friday, only because I put it on in my hotel while getting ready.
Michael Gove was being interviewed and was asked by a presenter if a teacher who was not getting results would be sacked, Gove just said yes... there was a shocked silence the interviewer were not used to such simple straightforward answers and they then tried a shock horror response that fell flat. I loved it, great tv. Gove did go on to say that it would be up the the head.
Gove is of course 100% right. Bad teachers who cannot get their act together must be sacked.
There is a difference between good and bad teaching and mixing it up with bad parenting is wrong.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I saw that interview too Barry, not often you get a straight honest answer from a politician - well done Michael Gove.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
straight and honest from an mp,thats unheard of isnt it.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Barryw/roger
you are correct in what you say, and everyone wants to see the best teachers possible, but outside influences such as bad parentng will have an affect, to think otherwise is not looking at the issue the best way and in the interests of all.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
It would be a straight answer if he defined 'results'.
The problem is that what Mr Gove currently defines as 'results' is in complete conflict with the consensus posted in this thread.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Having spent many years on the KCC Education Committee when members had to deal with school/pupils problems it
is evident that Parenting plays a major part in the education of our children.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
And whose job is it to educate the parents?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
There is no question that there is a lot of bad patenting and that does affect results but that is not the same as good and bad teachers. Two things being mixed up here, the teachers will be judged on what goes on in the classroom by the heads who are the ones who will decide if the teaching is good or not regardless of how bad parenting may impact on the results of some.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
have to agree with that, some teachers get excellent results from the same pupils that bad teachers don't.
ultimately the head teacher must decide based on results who to give the order of the boot.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
And with this I agree, good head teachers know what's going on. This is why they are in the role, and thankfully to most part, still are. For this I an thankful.
Unfortunately the academies agenda ultimately dilutes this professional judgement, with head teachers not understanding the role and job of teachers. This is the problem.
I would like to clarify that the problems I mention (on this thread) can be equally attributed to Ed Balls.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
The Gove fellow is about as straight as a cork-screw. As I recall you get marked down if you do not show your 'working-out'. Him sticking the word 'yes' in where another would bluster has far more to do with sounding as if he knows that of which he speaks. Without the 'working-out' there is little more can be gleaned.
Timetabling plays an important role in learning also. Classes before lunch and after and after gym/games, classes after boring ones and after poorly disciplined ones all suffer from what can be no fault of the class teacher. Parents, home life, peer-pressure and petty vendettas too can all work against learning.
When all is said and done educating children is a most difficult task. It would be a miracle if the process was not over-simplified by testing and teaching to the test and by blaming all around when even tests (surprise, surprise) fail to yield the desired results.
So...whoopee! Today the answer is to re-state that teaching is not a job for life.
I wonder what is going on behind all the wind and piss. Small 'm' martial law?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
i agree on the heads
but parenting skills has to have an affect
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS